Interview with Steve Austin, ABC Radio Brisbane Mornings
STEVE AUSTIN, HOST: Three-hundred kilometres west of Brisbane is an oil deposit that could apparently secure our future fuel supply, but it seems the steps are bundled in red tape and political disagreement. The Premier of Queensland, David Crisafulli, is demanding the Federal Government fast-track the assessment pathway, but at the same time has launched a state inquiry through the Queensland Productivity Commission into federal environment laws.
So, let’s go to Federal Environment Minister, Murray Watt. Murray Watt, are you concerned about what the Queensland Productivity Commission may find? MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Hi Steve, good to be with you again.
Look, I'm not particularly concerned what the Productivity Commission inquiry will find, especially because we passed historic reforms to the EPBC Act at the end of last year that David Crisafulli's Federal LNP colleagues voted against, and those reforms were all about speeding up the approvals for projects as well as better protecting our environment. So, I'm not concerned about what the Productivity Commission inquiry would find.
What I am concerned about is that this just seems to be another delay tactic from the Queensland Government to avoid signing up to a new bilateral agreement with us, which would improve the situation further. Steve, I've got other states beating my door down, trying to reach a new agreement with us about how they can fast-track approvals. In contrast, the Crisafulli Government is creating inquiries that won't tell us anything we don't know already - STEVE AUSTIN: Well, which states are knocking your door down?
Because the two biggest oil deposits are either Western Australia or Queensland. Victoria has a moratorium on this, so it won't be Victoria. So which state is knocking on your door?
MURRAY WATT: Western Australia is particularly keen to sign a bilateral agreement with us. STEVE AUSTIN: Are you going to do it? MURRAY WATT: Yes, we are - STEVE AUSTIN: Okay, so then what would prevent it happening with Queensland then?
MURRAY WATT: The Queensland Government. It's completely in the Queensland Government's control to enter a bilateral agreement with us. We recently- STEVE AUSTIN: I want to make sure I'm very clear on this, Murray.
The only thing preventing a bilateral agreement would start the drilling of oil at Taroom Trough is not federal law, but the Queensland Government refusing to sign a bilateral agreement with you today? MURRAY WATT: Just to be really clear about this, Steve, under the existing EPBC Act, the one that we amended last year, we already have a bilateral agreement with the Queensland Government which they could use right now to fast-track this project if they wanted to, and any other project in Queensland - STEVE AUSTIN: So Queensland doesn't actually need to sign anything, it's already signed?
MURRAY WATT: Correct. There is an existing bilateral agreement between the Federal Government and the Queensland Government that could be used, and my departmental secretary has made that point to the State Coordinator-General. What I'm also talking about is that we now have the capacity, now that we've reformed the EPBC Act, to enter new bilateral agreements that incorporate all of the reforms that we've made, which will improve the situation further.
STEVE AUSTIN: So Queensland would need new bilateral agreements they haven't yet signed? MURRAY WATT: No. What I'm saying is that they can right now approve or streamline the process for an approval of the Taroom project and any other project under the existing bilateral.
Once they sign a new bilateral, if they choose to, that incorporates the new reforms, it will be faster still. And the indications we're getting from the Queensland Government are nowhere near as enthusiastic as other state governments. And again, as evidence of that, they've set up this inquiry from the Productivity Commission that they say they won't enter a new agreement until that is over, whereas other states are trying to sign up to them right away.
STEVE AUSTIN: So who's bundling the Taroom Trough in red tape? What you're telling me is it's actually the Queensland State Government. MURRAY WATT: Well, I think the fundamental problem here, Steve, is that too often from the Crisafulli Government we see all talk and no action.
What they were focused on over the last couple of weeks is media headlines and photo opportunities rather than doing the work required to get this project assessed and approved. We have still not received a single bit of information from the Queensland Government that we could use to fast-track this project if we wanted to. And that's why I was prompted to write to David Crisafulli on Friday to say, can you at least give us some basic information?
How many wells are we talking about? How deep are they? - STEVE AUSTIN: Has he responded? MURRAY WATT: No.
I mean, to be fair, he only received the letter on Friday, but he was very prepared to go out and do a media conference in Taroom a couple of weeks ago and hasn't followed it up with a single piece of information. So bottom line from me is we're open to considering any project that any state wants to put forward for us to consider. It's got to stack up economically and environmentally of course.
We haven't received anything from the Queensland Government. And as I say, if they wanted to streamline this project, they could do so right now under the existing agreement between our government and theirs. STEVE AUSTIN: All right.
So I'm trying to make sure that this is clearly understandable. So- because it's got the tremors of sounding like a yes minister argument. So the bottom line is there's no- there's nothing, there’s nothing that would prevent the Queensland State Government going ahead with the Taroom Trough now, today, because they already have a bilateral agreement signed with you.
It's already done. There's nothing to prevent it? MURRAY WATT: Correct.
There is nothing that stops them from streamlining this project right now under the existing bilateral agreement, except for the fact that they don't have the basic information that is required. They've been more focused on getting media headlines. The only communication I've had from the Queensland Government about this project has been when I read their transcripts doing interviews, they've never picked up the phone, they've never provided any information to us, And that's what prompted me to write to the Premier on Friday to say, if you're actually serious, do you want to put something to us without delay, and we'll consider it.
STEVE AUSTIN: Okay. Well, they have a position here called the State Coordinator-General. And this person has very powerful laws to make things happen.
Has the Coordinator-General phoned you and said, Minister, what do we need to do? MURRAY WATT: My understanding is there's been one conversation between the Coordinator-General and my Departmental Secretary. Again, to be fair, the Coordinator-General is a public service position, so he would ordinarily speak to a federal public servant, and that has happened.
STEVE AUSTIN: Yeah, he's pretty independent. He can pick up the phone- he's got such power, he can pick up the phone to God if he wants. MURRAY WATT: Yeah, I mean, but again, he is a public servant, so it would be more appropriate, and that's what has happened, is that those two public servants have had a conversation, but no one, no minister from the Queensland Government has contacted me.
No one has written to me. I'm the one who's now written to them saying: here is what you need to do, and by the way, you can get on with it now if you want to. STEVE AUSTIN: Murray, let me ask you this then.
Do you want them to drill oil out of the Taroom Trough? MURRAY WATT: I'm quite open to that happening, Steve. STEVE AUSTIN: Do you want it?
Do you actually want it? MURRAY WATT: I’d like to know what it is, Steve. All I've got to go on- STEVE AUSTIN: Well, Shell say it is a commercial product.
Shell are drilling there. They’ve done- it's not your normal heavy crude. It's a very light substance, but it is usable, and Shell are drilling there now.
Do you want it? MURRAY WATT: I think we all want as much oil and gas in this country at the moment as we can. I think it's worth making the point that this project, even if it were to happen, would probably not be supplying any oil or gas for five to ten years.
In the meantime, there are a range of things the Queensland Government could be doing to help Queenslanders right now with fuel prices and fuel supplies. STEVE AUSTIN: MURRAY WATT: Well, I've noticed, for example, the Western Australian Government has decided to set up their own reserve of fuels. That would be an option for the Queensland Government if they wanted to.
I know the Crisafulli Government has jacked up car registration fees since they've come to office. Maybe there's something they could do there. The Queensland Labor has got a bill before the Queensland Parliament right now that's about capping fuel prices.
STEVE AUSTIN: You've been around as long as I have, Murray. You'd remember that former Labor premier Peter Beattie was the one who scrapped the fuel subsidy a number of years back. Should they reinstate some kind of subsidy?
MURRAY WATT: Oh, look, I'm not going to tell the Queensland Government what to do. I'm obviously in the Federal Parliament, but what I'm saying is that there are a range of options open to David Crisafulli and his government right now to help Queenslanders, some of which have been done by other state governments. Let's not forget, it was the Queensland Government that was the holdout state in cutting the GST windfall that state governments are getting from fuel price increases.
They finally got there under pressure from us and from other state governments. So I think- you know, I'm all for considering projects that may happen five to 10 years down the track. But I also think we should be thinking about what we can be doing to assist Queenslanders right now.
And frankly, I haven't seen a lot of action from the Crisafulli Government, just press conferences and photo ops. STEVE AUSTIN: Murray, I want to ask you something that surprised my listeners we heard on Friday. We've heard from a local husband and wife honey production and packing company based in Logan in Jim Chalmers’ electorate, Carl and Karin from Hampson Honey, about some of the issues that they are facing as local honey producers.
Let me just play you this so that it brings you up to speed. CARL HAMPSON: I think the major challenge for us and the major frustration comes from the fact that you can order honey from India and it'll land on a ship – 5 per cent of it gets tested and you can buy it for two bucks. STEVE AUSTIN: CARL HAMPSON: Put it in a bottle, put it next to ours and the consumer doesn't really know any different.
So there's these companies making mega bucks selling unregulated honey from overseas where the Australian guys are doing such a good job – the QA we have here, all the fancy stainless steel gear and highly trained staff. But somehow, you're allowed to bring honey off a ship for a couple of bucks and [inaudible] - STEVE AUSTIN: Have you ever raised that with a federal minister or a department at all?
CARL HAMPSON: Free trade agreement, speak to someone else – that's what we get. STEVE AUSTIN: So free trade agreement means you get crushed by $2 honey from India? CARL HAMPSON: That's correct.
And we don't have a free trade agreement the other way. It's 60 per cent tariffs to send honey into India. [End of excerpt] STEVE AUSTIN: That's Carl Hampson from a Logan honey producer. Murray, first of all, you're responsible for biosecurity in Queensland.
How often are we testing imported honey from overseas? MURRAY WATT: Just to be clear, Steve, biosecurity regulation falls under the Agriculture Department federally, and I used to be the agriculture minister so I'm not directly responsible for that these days. STEVE AUSTIN: Thank you for your correction.
MURRAY WATT: Yeah, that's okay. Once an agriculture minister, always an agriculture minister, so still obviously interested. What tends to happen is that federal governments are responsible for biosecurity standards when products come into the country.
State governments are responsible for biosecurity within their state borders if there's an incursion, for example. STEVE AUSTIN: Okay, but this is an international agreement, a free trade agreement. I'll get to the 60 per cent tariff in a moment, but how often are we testing imported honey?
MURRAY WATT: Look, my understanding is that happens on a pretty regular basis. STEVE AUSTIN: Two per cent of the time, apparently. Two per cent- 5 per cent.
My apologies, 5 per cent. MURRAY WATT: Yeah. So, I mean, I'm reaching back into my memory when I was in the agriculture portfolio, and when products are brought into the country, whether it be honey or cars or other things, we can't feasibly test every single product that comes in.
Nothing would get through the borders. But basically, the biosecurity officials take a risk-based approach, depending on the importer, depending on the country that's brought in. As to the exact percentage, I'm not sure about that.
But of course, we want to make sure diseases don't get in here. STEVE AUSTIN: Okay, I understand that. What shocked me was apparently under our free trade agreements, India can sell us honey at no tariff.
But if Australia wants to sell honey back to India, a 60 per cent tariff. How did that happen? MURRAY WATT: Yeah, look, again, I'm not sure whether those numbers are exactly right, Steve.
But the broader point is that when we reach free trade agreements with different countries, there are particular products that we want to export to them, they want to import from us and vice versa. And inevitably what happens is that we might get reductions in tariffs on certain goods that they are particularly keen to have, but we may face higher tariffs when it comes to other products that we want to export.
Every country around the world, unless if you've got a completely zero tariff system with that country, means that, for example, with India, I know that there have been certain agricultural products that we've been able to get very low tariffs on. There are other products that they don't particularly want Australian goods and have higher tariffs. Equally, there are goods that come in from India that we have very low tariffs on, and there are other goods that we have higher tariffs on.
That's sort of how these agreements work. But what I do know is that Don Farrell, the Trade Minister, is currently working on the next round of negotiations on the India Free Trade Agreement. We'd of course like to reduce tariffs on a whole range of goods going forward.
STEVE AUSTIN: Well, we'll speak with Mr Farrell's office about why there's a 60 per cent tariff on local honey. It's important because it's about our food. Without bees, we don't have food – they pollinate trees, they pollinate avocados, stone fruit, berries, all sorts of things.
How concerned are you about the impact that the varroa mite is having on hives? I'll ask that because Carl Hampson spoke about their concerns about varroa mite. CARL HAMPSON: Going to have to learn to deal with it.
But there's a concerning resistance to a lot of the treatments that's just popped up in the last month. And there's a thought that there could be a second incursion, a different kind of mite. [End of excerpt] STEVE AUSTIN: What's the Federal Government doing to support apiarists throughout this outbreak, Murray? Can you tell me?
MURRAY WATT: Well, Steve, I can get you a direct answer over the course of the day by speaking to my ministerial colleague. But again, in broad terms, we've put a huge investment into tackling varroa mite. It's been an issue in Australia now for probably three or four years.
It was more of an issue initially down in the southern states, but it is, of course, a concern to hear that there is some resistance to drugs, and the disease being developed amongst bee populations in Queensland as well. Why don't I take that one on notice, Steve, and come back to you with an answer as quickly as I can as to exactly what we're doing, given it's not my portfolio anymore.
STEVE AUSTIN: Yeah, that'd be very helpful. I’d appreciate any help, because these are local bee producers. MURRAY WATT: STEVE AUSTIN: You understand the importance of bees in the food chain, the natural food cycle.
That'd be really terrific. Thank you, Murray Watt. Appreciate it.
MURRAY WATT: No worries, Steve. STEVE AUSTIN: Queensland Labor Senator Murray Watt, who is the Federal Minister for Environment and Water, who says when it comes to the Taroom Trough, the Premier of Queensland is misleading you. All they need to do is go ahead with an already-signed bilateral agreement.
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