Interview with Karl Stefanovic, Today Show

KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: Pauline Hanson is this morning vowing to topple more major party strongholds following One Nation's historic win in Farrer. To discuss, I'm joined by Environment Minister Murray Watt and Nine Papers Chief Political Correspondent Paul Sakkal. Well, you know whenever they roll out the attack dog on a Monday morning, Labor's a little bit worried.

Don't muzzle the Muzza. The schnauzer joins us now. Murray, good morning to you.

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Good to see you again, Karl. KARL STEFANOVIC: All right, are you ready for One Nation in Western Sydney? They're coming for you.

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, look, I've seen those reports and, I mean, that's not my focus, Karl. Obviously my focus, along with the Government as a whole, is making sure we help Australians with their cost of living struggles, delivering more housing. That's why we've announced today over $500 million to speed up the approvals of housing through our environmental law reforms.

But look, if One Nation chooses to try to take us on in Western Sydney, I'll be out there reminding Western Sydney residents that One Nation has voted against every piece of cost of living relief we've delivered, they've voted against every housing investment we've delivered, and they've voted against the cheaper medicines and improvements to Medicare that have helped working Australians, especially in places like Western Sydney.

KARL STEFANOVIC: You said yesterday they're an extreme and chaotic party, there's nothing like bringing the country together. MURRAY WATT: Well, I think if anyone thinks that One Nation is bringing us together, I think they've got another thing coming. I mean, we have worked at pains to try to assist all Australians through what's been a really difficult time.

That's why we, even the last week, have announced a domestic fuel reserve. We've halved the petrol excise. These are the kind of things that Australians need us to do, not the sort of divisive rhetoric that we see from One Nation.

And as I say, they have joined the Liberals to vote against every bit of cost of living relief that we’ve delivered. KARL STEFANOVIC: You don't think calling them extreme and chaotic is divisive? MURRAY WATT: Well, I think any honest observer can see what they stand for, and it’s not about bringing their country together.

KARL STEFANOVIC: People are voting for them. Paul, this wasn't just a vent, this was a nightmare for the Coalition… PAUL SAKKAL, PANELIST: Total disaster. It was always going to be bad, but the numbers were worse than people expected.

Interesting comments there from Murray. I thought he was going to come on here full attack dog style and say ‘a vote for One Nation is a vote for the Liberal Party’, because the assumption has always been if you tied the Liberal Party to One Nation, that might diminish their brand. But there was no comment about the Liberal Party which shows how little a factor they're playing in Murray's mind at the moment.

And what a beautiful distraction for this Government, which is about to break a big election commitment tomorrow night, to be talking about a chaotic and extreme right wing of Australian politics. KARL STEFANOVIC: All right, just moving on, Murray, is net zero dead? I mean, you're going to call it now?

MURRAY WATT: No, absolutely not, Karl. KARL STEFANOVIC: Are you sure? MURRAY WATT: No, and it's important that we pursue net zero, not only for our environment but also to make sure that Australians get the cheaper power bills that we need going forward.

KARL STEFANOVIC: So just the supercharged investment side of renewables then? MURRAY WATT: Well, I think you're picking up on a report in one of the papers today, Karl, which has flagged that. And we are going to need to make savings across all parts of the budget.

We've obviously already talked about saving money through the NDIS reform... KARL STEFANOVIC: So you admit it's not working? MURRAY WATT: No, it's not about that.

It's about saying that we have now invested substantial amounts of money in moving Australia towards more renewable energy, which is bringing down power prices compared to the alternatives. But we don't need to be spending at the same rate in that area of the policy, just as we're going to be making savings across the board. We've said it's going to be a responsible budget that does require savings.

I've had savings forced upon me in my own portfolio while, of course, finding that money for speeding up approvals. But we are going to have to find savings. But the reality is the cheapest way we can deliver power going forward is by more renewables, not by nuclear, not by coal, which is what One Nation and the Liberal Party want to do.

KARL STEFANOVIC: So the investment's just not sustainable. Paul, renewables are fine, but gee, they're expensive and don't really work short-term. PAUL SAKKAL: Well, in the long run, it's good to have a grid that doesn't rely on fossil fuels being shipped through straits that can be closed at the whims of certain presidents and Israeli leaders and Iranian mullahs.

But it's a rocky transition. It was never going to be easy. There's a lot of noise on this issue, particularly on the right side of politics, but polling does show that most Australians think renewables are the long-term solution.

So, bumpy, but Labor's trying to get there in a longer-term plan. KARL STEFANOVIC: Okay, so tomorrow, a budget full of broken promises, Murray, how exactly will changes to property investment build more houses for the young? MURRAY WATT: Well, you're making a lot of assumptions there, Karl.

We haven't announced our budget yet, and what we've been saying is that we went to the last election, focused very much on delivering more housing. We are doing that. But I think everyone understands.

I mean, do either of you think it's easier for a young person to get into the property market than it was ten years ago, let alone when I got into the property market? KARL STEFANOVIC: Okay, so how will that change things? Master Builders Association says this morning that if you take out the investment arm of it, then fewer houses are going to be built.

MURRAY WATT: Well, there's been all sorts of speculation about what we may or may not do in the budget. We've only got less than two days to wait now until all will be revealed... KARL STEFANOVIC: [Laughs] What do you mean?

It's everywhere, man. PAUL SAKKAL: We've all reported it. KARL STEFANOVIC: You've leaked it everywhere.

MURRAY WATT: There's speculation everywhere. I haven't seen much confirmation from the Government. That will come tomorrow night.

But if we come to a different view on things, we've obviously got an obligation to explain that. But, as I say, the problem remains that despite our investment in housing, which has been substantial, it's harder than ever for young people to get into the housing market, and as a country, we've got to deal with that. KARL STEFANOVIC: All right, I'm not sure how that helps.

But anyway, we'll wait and see, because maybe it's not in the budget. A budget that divides, Paul, might only end up helping One Nation? PAUL SAKKAL: Well, most of what goes on in Canberra at the moment appears to be helping One Nation because politics is hard, governing is hard, the issues the country is facing are extremely hard.

One Nation taps into all of those concerns in the community and have been more successful at that than the major parties expected them to be. There are no solutions yet on the part of One Nation. I suspect once the Liberal Party, if it can get its act together and actually start running a coherent campaign against One Nation, we'll see some actual scrutiny.

And Labor, once it realises its base might be at risk of drifting into Pauline Hanson's column, will also turn its guns on them, as you're seeing this morning. So the next two years will be fascinating, but there's a new dynamic in Australian politics and who knows where it will land. KARL STEFANOVIC: Okay, Murray, just finally, I can't let you go without some sort of Liberal Party payout, I mean, this is why you're on. [Laughs] MURRAY WATT: Well Paul beat me to the chance to say that, I was coming to it!

KARL STEFANOVIC: Well you know they're down and out! PAUL SAKKAL: It's usually your first line! [Laughs] KARL STEFANOVIC: MURRAY WATT: You might remember, Karl, that John Howard used to say that the iron law of politics is arithmetic. And what we found out on the weekend is there is simply no way that the Liberals and Nationals can form government without One Nation.

So does that mean Pauline Hanson is a minister? Does that mean Barnaby Joyce is the minister for climate change when he wants to abolish the whole Department of Climate Change? That's what we've got to grapple with, is it's either a Labor Government going forward or a ragtag coalition of the Libs, the Nats and One Nation, and I don't think that's the way the country gets ahead.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Well, there you go. Nice way to end. MURRAY WATT: PAUL SAKKAL: Delicious.

We got there. [Laughs] KARL STEFANOVIC: Yeah, we got there in the end. Thank you guys. Appreciate it.

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