Interview with Craig Zonca, ABC Radio Brisbane

CRAIG ZONCA, HOST: Okay, so you've heard from the Deputy Premier. The other person who has a key stakeholding role in what's going to happen at Victoria Park is the Federal Environment Minister, Murray Watt, because there are still a couple of applications sitting on his desk that could have an impact on this construction timeline. So Senator Murray Watt, good morning to you.

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: G'day Craig, G'day Loretta. CRAIG ZONCA: Okay, two applications dismissed at the weekend, as I understand it. What's still to be assessed by you and your department?

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, so having now dealt with two of those applications, Craig, and there's previously we have dealt with a couple of others either making decisions or seeing them withdrawn. There are now five applications that remain. We had two more come in over the weekend.

So there's a distinction under the Act that I administer between applications that are essentially seeking an emergency declaration to protect cultural heritage. We now have one of those that came in over the weekend. There are also four applications for longer term protection under Section 10 of the Act, and that's the process that I've already got underway with an independent reporter appointed to consult with the parties, consider the evidence and provide recommendations to me.

LORETTA RYAN, HOST: So how many- I don't know, how much teeth does this have? Because when we spoke to the Deputy Premier Jarrod Bleijie just before, he basically said the stadium was going ahead no matter what. If you have a listen to what he said: “There is no plan B.

This is it, and we start today”. So no plan B. So that means, you know, no matter what you rule, it's still going to go ahead.

MURRAY WATT: Well obviously it was a decision from the Queensland Government to construct the stadium on Victoria Park's grounds, and it's a matter for them to- you know, whether they've got contingencies or not. From my perspective, my role here is to consider the applications that I receive seeking cultural protection orders. Basically- a lot of people have thought that these declarations that I can make effectively stop work orders, which is not the case.

What they do achieve - a declaration - if I were to grant one is to set out things that need to be done to preserve or protect an area from being injured in some way or desecrated in some way. So it would be possible, for example, if I were to grant a declaration that the Queensland Government might need to make adjustments to the design of the stadium or its precinct in order to protect cultural heritage.

But, of course, that relies on me making a decision in the first place that the area is culturally significant and that there is a serious threat to that sacred site in the future. And they're the kind of things that we've got to consider. CRAIG ZONCA: Okay, so just to clarify there, the applications as they stand, no matter what, they do not have the power to halt construction of this entirely?

MURRAY WATT: No, I mean, this is the thing, is that people seem to think that these are stop work orders and they're not. What they are, what they do achieve is a declaration from me that there is cultural heritage that is at risk of being damaged and that it needs to be protected. Now, one way that could be achieved is by stopping work, but another way that could be achieved is by redesigning the precinct or the project to avoid that.

But I emphasise that that would only be necessary if I granted a declaration. And to this point, the applications that we've received haven't met the tests that are required to grant them. CRAIG ZONCA: And what is that test?

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, so essentially there are two requirements under the Act. First of all, I've got to be satisfied that the particular area is of specific significance to Aboriginal people in accordance with Aboriginal traditions. And secondly, I've got to find that there is a threat of that site being desecrated or injured in some way.

For the emergency applications that we've received and now considered, it's an even higher test, which is that I've got to be convinced that the area is under serious and immediate threat of injury or desecration. And just so people understand the two applications that I decided yesterday; one of those applications, I did find that there was cultural significance, but that the nature of the works that are planned in the short term weren't sufficient to be a serious and immediate threat to that site.

The other application, I decided that the evidence did not convince me that it was a culturally significant site in accordance with Aboriginal traditions. I'm sorry to be a bit technical, but I think it's useful for people to understand exactly what I've got to decide. LORETTA RYAN: Yep.

So if things have to be changed, though, the plans, that will delay the stadium further, won't it? MURRAY WATT: Potentially it could. And that's why I've got to take these issues seriously.

You know, I haven't been out there engaging in the sort of political debate about this matter. I mean, my role here is as a decision maker to consider the evidence that I'm presented with. That's what we've done over the last few weeks since receiving these applications.

We've considered the information provided by the applicants. We've considered the information provided by the Queensland Government. There's a number of other interested parties who've been consulted as well, and then we've made the decision.

So as I say, the implications of these decisions are significant, either in terms of the impact it might have on the projects or also the impact that it might have on the Aboriginal people who've made those applications. I recognise that this part of Brisbane does have cultural importance to many First Nations people and to Brisbane residents generally. But what I've got to do under the Act is consider those two things, whether it's a site of particular significance and whether there's a serious and immediate threat of that being desecrated.

LORETTA RYAN: So when will you likely have a decision on those? MURRAY WATT: Well obviously everyone wants these decisions made as quickly as possible and my department has worked incredibly hard, including this weekend and last weekend, to finalise the two that we just dealt with. We only received them about four to six weeks ago, so that's a pretty rapid turnaround in government terms.

Obviously the one new emergency application that we received over the weekend will have the highest priority, given it's an emergency application. But I know that the reporter who I've appointed to deal with those other more permanent declarations is making good progress. I mean, I think in the end, I think it is really important that the Queensland Government does continue working hard with local Traditional Owners to ensure that cultural heritage matters are protected, whether that's achieved via the declarations I make, or you heard the Deputy Premier mention earlier that GIICA - the Coordination Authority - has got a cultural management plan in place with a number of Traditional Owners.

I think it's really important that that dialogue continue because I don't think any Brisbane resident would want to see cultural heritage destroyed, and the Queensland Government have got an obligation there. CRAIG ZONCA: Senator, did you hold any concerns over how protesters were treated, particularly on Friday afternoon when the tent embassy that was in the park was torn down?

MURRAY WATT: Well I don't think any of us like to see imagery of conflict between police and protesters. The Deputy Premier has explained the efforts that were gone to, to ensure that wouldn't occur, and, again, that's something for the Queensland Government to manage. You know, people do have a democratic right in Australia to protest, but none of us want to see it sort of come to the sort of film that we saw on Friday.

And hopefully these sort of things can be negotiated peacefully going forward. CRAIG ZONCA: Senator Murray White with you here on 612 ABC Brisbane. Just hang with us for a tick, Senator, if you don't mind.

Deanna from Annerley is on the phone on 1300 222 612. Deanna, you have a concern about protecting First Nations heritage in the area. How so?

Explain your question. CALLER DEANNA: Yeah, I do, I grew up in the area. My mum told me stories of Tom Petrie's diaries, even from early settlers have recorded that site as a really significant cultural meeting place and gathering place for First Nations tribes.

And, given that the Government's put aside so many- the State Government's put aside planning laws that they'd normally have to go through, what's to protect if there's ancient burials, ancient artefacts there being destroyed in the interim, that there's not proper investigations. CRAIG ZONCA: Okay. Senator Watt, can you shed any light on that, the requirements that there will be around any particular sacred sites that you may deem at that park?

MURRAY WATT : Sure, and thanks for the question, Deanna. So, as I said, one of the two applications that I decided yesterday, I did find that there was cultural significance there. The evidence that was provided to me demonstrated that there was cultural significance in that particular site to particular people.

And as I say, that's required under the Act. But in that instance, that application, I did not find that it was a serious and imminent threat of damage, given the fencing work and other work that is proposed in the short term. But as I said, the other application, I did not find that the evidence bore out the argument that there was cultural significance.

In terms of what can be done more generally; again, there are a number of applications before me and I will consider each of them on their merits based on the evidence that we received. But more generally, it is, as I say, really important that the Queensland Government does consult Traditional Owners through its cultural heritage management plans to ensure that any cultural heritage that exists on that site is protected.

That is the responsibility of the Queensland Government as the proponent of this project. LORETTA RYAN: Senator Murray Watt, from one Olympic site to another, we want to talk about Redlands and the whitewater rafting facility. It's been given the go-ahead, but as Federal Environment Minister, do you have concerns about that, about it endangering koala habitat?

MURRAY WATT: Well, I always have concerns about projects that could have a significant impact on threatened species, and that's what part of my role as the Federal Environment Minister is to take steps to prevent that. On this particular case, the application and the proposal was referred to us as the Federal Government to consider, but essentially what we found was that the proposal as it stood was not likely to have a significant impact on koalas and therefore could proceed but only subject to strong conditions.

So for example, the safeguards that we've required for that site are no night time- or restrictions on night time access to avoid damage with koalas. We've required 42 hectares of koala habitat to be preserved to support the local koala population, and that includes corridors for those koalas to move. So I wouldn't want people to think that it's just being given a massive thumbs up, do what you want without any concern for koalas.

That habitat is being preserved. And that's the amount of habitat that's preserved is about twice the amount - the area - that would actually be used for the construction. So a lot of people understandably think that we get involved at a federal level whenever any habitat is going to be impacted.

If we did that, we'd be getting involved in every single property development in Queensland or Australia, et cetera. What we get involved in under the law is where a proposal is going to have a significant impact on a threatened species or the Great Barrier Reef. It's the significance test that is important.

And the view we reached in this proposal was that the koala habitat could largely be preserved while also allowing the proposal to go through. LORETTA RYAN: Okay, so you don't get involved in everything, but you can't ignore the Ormiston College redevelopment. You just mentioned a koala corridor that you were concerned about.

There's a koala corridor there at the Ormiston College redevelopment and trees are being felled. Do you accept that premise? MURRAY WATT: Well this one has not even been referred to us for assessment, Loretta.

Basically, the law requires the individual proponents, so in this case Ormiston College, to do a self-assessment of whether their project is likely to have a significant impact on a nationally protected matter. They have done that work. Their view is that it's not likely to have a significant impact.

I'm not saying it won't have any impact, but we don't, as I say, get involved wherever there's any relatively small impact. It's only when there's a significant impact on a threatened species or something else that we protect at a national level. And we've seen no evidence to the contrary to suggest that is likely to have a significant impact.

I get, absolutely, that people get concerned when they see koala habitat being felled. But the test for whether we restrict that at a federal level is whether it's going to have a significant impact or not. Unfortunately, the reality is that if we’re to have the homes that we need going forward, the energy projects that we need going forward, there are going to be some environmental impacts a lot of the time.

But what our job is to do at a federal level is to make sure that those impacts are not significant and don't, for example, put a threatened species at risk of extinction. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that that's likely to happen in either the Ormiston or the Birkdale case. If there was evidence to suggest that, of course, we would get involved.

CRAIG ZONCA: Okay, that's something that we'll continue to watch as well. Senator Murray Watt, thanks for your time this morning. MURRAY WATT: Good to talk to you both.

We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of country throughout Australia and recognise their continuing connection to land, waters and culture. We pay our respects to their Elders past, present and emerging.