Interview with Melissa Clarke, ABC AM

Transcript, E&OE Subjects: Solomon Islands Prime Minister Matthew Wale’s visit to Australia; Nakamal agreement; AUKUS. 03 June 2026 Melissa Clarke, Host: Senator Wong, thanks very much for speaking with AM this morning. Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good to be with you. Do you believe that Australia can develop closer security ties with Solomon Islands under Mr Wale's leadership?

Foreign Minister: We're very honoured to welcome Prime Minister Wale of the Solomon Islands here to Australia. I met with him briefly yesterday and today he'll be meeting with the Prime Minister and also members of the Cabinet. And we welcome him and we want to work with his government and obviously we'll be led by the priorities that he articulates as Prime Minister.

So, if he would like a security treaty, Australia would be happy with that as an outcome? Foreign Minister: You've seen us through this term and the last term engage in building trust with Pacific nations and developing transformative relationships and agreements with them, such as the Papua New Guinea alliance. So, obviously we understand that all of these contribute to Australian security.

So, yes, of course we are open to elevation of the relationship and will be led by his priorities. Would you be disappointed if Mr Wale doesn't want to seek a security treaty? Foreign Minister: Well this is all 'would', you know, I don't like hypotheticals.

We welcome him, we want to work with him. It's a new government, it has a very clear agenda and we want to work with that government to deliver that agenda because it's in our interest to have secure arrangements throughout our region that contributes to Australian security. Mr Wale has previously called for details of the Solomon's security deal with China, the one that was signed back in 2022, to be made public.

Would Australia be asking for that to happen? Foreign Minister: That's a decision for the government and the people of Solomon Islands. I'm on the record as saying, you know, transparency would be a good thing, not just because, you know, the ABC is interested and your listeners, but actually for the region.

Because we see security as a shared responsibility of the Pacific region. And in a contested time, it's important that the Pacific leaders' view that security is provided by the region is adhered to. Negotiations are still ongoing between the Australian and Vanuatu government about the Nakamal agreement.

Do you have an update on when both governments might be able to finalise that pact? Foreign Minister: Look we are working through our processes on this agreement. We knew it would take time and we want to work through this patiently and respectfully with Vanuatu.

That's what we're doing. Has China sought to water down its contents? Foreign Minister: I'm not going to comment on specifics but as a general proposition, I think we all know China has its interests, it seeks to assert those interests, just as Australia will continue to work very hard to secure our interests.

As we heard earlier in the program, the US has announced Australia would receive three in-service or second-hand Virginia-class submarines instead of two second-hand and one new submarine. Can you clarify why that change has happened? Foreign Minister: I think the Defence Minister has outlined that over the weekend and in his announcement.

What I would go back to though is why AUKUS? Submarine capability is a capability we need to replace. It's an important capability for Australia and if you look at the world in which we live and the region in which we live, it is a capability that is necessary for deterrence.

Deterrence is about assuring the peace. So this is a project we need to continue with. We've had chopping and changing over many years.

I might have even been on this program whilst in opposition pointing out the capability gap which was bequeathed because of the Abbott, Turnbull, Morrison multiple plans. We're not changing plans. I think that's a strong defence of the program to some of the growing criticism even within Labor about it.

But can I bring you back to the question of the change to now be receiving three in-service or used submarines? It doesn't seem clear as to what Australia's preference has been all along. We've heard the Defence Department Secretary say it was always Australia's preference to have had three in-service submarines because it's simpler.

But if that's the case, why didn't we have that originally? Foreign Minister: Look, you know, I think the arrangement has always been we wanted three before we were able to have the new AUKUS submarine. Whether it's two and one or three, it's the capability that matters.

Is it up to the US what formation we get? Do we have input into whether we get new or pre-used submarines? Foreign Minister: Obviously the US is producing the Virginias and there are discussions and negotiations between Australia and the United States, but the project remains.

The US is providing us with submarines to deal with a capability gap that we have had bequeathed to us. And then we have new submarines capability which we are all working very hard to deliver. I'm still not clear on why we've gone from two and one to all three being used.

Is it because we have changed our mind or is it because the US is no longer willing to offer a new one? Foreign Minister: I mean, these are capability decisions which are discussed between the United States and Australia, but I don't believe as much turns on it as you are putting to me. We want three submarines from the United States to deal with a capability gap before the AUKUS submarines are to be delivered.

That is the plan. Senator Wong, thanks very much for speaking to us. Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you.