Interview with James Glenday, ABC Breakfast

Transcript, E&OE Subjects: AUKUS, Middle East conflict, foreign arrangements scheme. 03 June 2026 James Glenday, Host: We're joined by the Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, who is in Canberra. Minister, welcome back to our program. Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good to be with you, James.

How widespread are the concerns about the AUKUS submarine deal in the Albanese Government and in the Labor Party more generally? Foreign Minister: AUKUS is an extremely important project for the country and let's start with why it is so important. We need submarine capability.

We have an ageing submarine fleet. We know we have a capability gap that was bequeathed to us by the previous government. And what AUKUS does is deal with that capability gap and gives us a new capability in the future.

And if you look at the world around us - and you and I have spoken about this over many interviews - it's a pretty challenging world and it's a region where there is a lot of contestation. And so part of what AUKUS enables us to have is a deterrent capability which is critical to assuring the peace. What did you make of Ed Husic speaking out publicly yesterday?

He's obviously a pretty high-profile figure. Is he on his own or are there others in the Government raising the same sort of things? Foreign Minister: Privately I understand individuals will have their views, but obviously I speak as a member of the Cabinet and the Government and believe it is in the best interests of our country for this project to continue to proceed.

We believe it is necessary for Australian security and we believe chopping and changing will only set the country back. I just wonder what you think Australians might make of the agreement at the moment, though, because we're seeing the Trump Administration be increasingly erratic and certainly very transactional. We've long known there are these concerns about the pace of American submarine building in Virginia.

We're seeing people like Malcolm Turnbull, Peter Garrett yesterday, now Ed Husic. There might be a debate at your Labor Party conference. Is this all undermining confidence in the AUKUS agreement?

Foreign Minister: First, in terms of debates at party conference, we are the only political party that has an open debate in front of the media. The Greens political party have closed conferences and the Liberals similarly. So, we are the only political party in this country that does open debates.

And if we have a debate on it, what we would be saying is what I've said to you, we've had over a decade of governments changing course on submarines. We have a clear project ahead of us, and that is to deliver a submarine capability for this country into this century. And it is a necessary capability, particularly in the current circumstances, because deterrence is about securing the peace.

So, this is not an academic exercise, this is not a theoretical exercise, and this is not an exercise about any one administration or any one government. It is about a capability the country needs for decades to assure peace and stability in the region in which we live. Well, let's go to some of the instability in the world.

Donald Trump reportedly had this colourful phone conversation with Israel's Prime Minister. He apparently called Benjamin Netanyahu crazy, among other things. I know you're not going to comment on Mr.

Trump. I do want to know your view on the Israeli PM, though. Is Benjamin Netanyahu an obstacle at the moment, do you think, to peace in the Middle East?

Foreign Minister: Well, you're right. I'm not going to comment on what President Trump said, other than to say it was significant and important that the US made clear its opposition to Mr. Netanyahu's plans to bombard or to attack Beirut.

We oppose Israel's escalation in Lebanon. We've made our views about Prime Minister Netanyahu's agenda quite clear. You saw that prior to the last election and he had some things to say about us.

We have a clear view, in this circumstance, about the escalation which we do not support. We believe that the ceasefire from the beginning should have applied to Lebanon. You might recall we were the first country to call for that.

And we continue to say, without the ceasefire applying to Lebanon, it is difficult to see how the broader ceasefire in the region can continue or be strengthened. You put some fresh sanctions yesterday on Israeli farming posts in the West Bank. Are you getting increasingly frustrated by Israel's actions?

Foreign Minister: We have a very clear position that Israeli settlements are an obstacle to peace and inconsistent with progress towards a two-state solution. You're right. I have sanctioned in the last 24 hours three individuals and four entities for their actions in the West Bank, including unacceptable violence and activities in relation to Palestinians.

You know, we have a consistent position. We support two states. And the reason is we see, as do so many others, no road to peace and stability in the Middle East unless the issue of a Palestinian state is resolved and there can be peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

Just before I let you go, there's a report this morning, Minister, that you're going to put more conditions on universities that are engaging in deals with foreign countries. Can you just take us through what you're doing and why you're concerned? Foreign Minister: We have a Foreign Arrangement Scheme which ensures that foreign policy and national security issues are taken into account when various arrangements are entered into by entities other than the Commonwealth Government.

So, that might be state and territory governments or it might be universities. And, it's important that these considerations are taken into account. And what I've done is put forward legislation to strengthen the scheme to enable further strengthening of arrangements and streamlining.

And for example, we saw a particular university decide to engage in arrangements with both Russia and Belarus. I think we all understand why that was a problem from Australia's perspective. And that is why we will keep ensuring that we keep the scheme fit for purpose.

Foreign Minister Penny Wong, we're out of time, but thank you for joining our program this morning. Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you.