Interview with Natalie Barr, Sunrise, Channel 7

Subjects: federal Budget, housing market, auction‑clearance rates Natalie Barr: Your money could soon be used to fund a new ad campaign to help promote the federal government’s controversial new budget. It’s been revealed this morning, a hat is being passed around to Labor MPs asking them to chip in from their yearly allowances to fund the new campaign, as the Budget remains deeply unpopular among voters of all age groups.

It comes as the government has allowed just 2 days of public hearings into the biggest changes to our tax system in decades. For their take let’s bring in Housing Minister Clare O’Neil and Opposition Senate leader Michaelia Cash. Morning to both of you.

Clare, is this a sign that the Budget is pretty unpopular that you need a new ad campaign to convince people it’s good? Clare O’Neil: Nat, we’re coming to the end of a sitting fortnight and it’s the job of MPs like myself to go back to our communities and explain to people what’s in a really important budget for the country. It’s a really strong message that we will be sharing with our constituents, and that is that our government is about lifting wages, about lowering taxes and about giving first‑home buyers across the country a go.

And I’m really looking forward to returning home on Thursday night and sharing that with the people that elected me to parliament. So is this story right? That Labor MPs are being asked to dip into their communications budget and stump up for the ad campaign?

Nat, it’s a really normal practice in politics for us to pool our resources to talk to voters about different things. Michaelia and her party do that; Pauline Hanson and One Nation probably do that. The important thing really is about the message that we’re sharing with people here, and again our government stands for higher wages, for lower taxes and for a fair go for first‑home buyers.

And we’re really looking forward to getting home to our communities to talk to our voters about that. Okay. Michaelia, the government wants to get the bill through in July, including those tax cuts.

How is Coalition going to vote? Michaelia Cash: Well in the first instance I hate to tell you this, Clare, I don’t think any Australian is now believing the crap that you are trying to spin them. Nat, this is what happens when you lie to the Australian people 50 times before an election.

The Australian people wake up. They’re struggling with their mortgage, they’re struggling with their grocery bill, they’re struggling with their power bill, and now they wake up and find that the Australian Government is using taxpayer’s money to flog to them a product that they have said no to. In relation to the voting on the bill, we have been very clear.

We will actually help Labor help themselves. We’ll split the bill in the parliament so we can all vote for the tax offsets, that’s a good thing, but then we can all vote against Labor’s toxic taxes. The Australian people have said no, and they are sick and tired of Labor wrapping things up in one bill and then running around and saying, ‘Oh, but the other parties, they didn’t vote for it’.

We will help you, Clare, help yourself. We can all vote for the tax offset, and the business expense offset, and then we can all vote no to Labor’s toxic taxes which the Australian public have resoundingly rejected, Nat. Why?

Because they were told 50 times before the election that Labor would not change negative gearing and they would not change capital gains tax. They were blatantly lied to by the Prime Minister, by the Treasurer and we will help Labor help themselves. None of us have to vote for those toxic taxes.

Clare, is there anything wrong in what Michaelia has just said? Well, absolutely, Nat, and if I can just speak to the Budget and then to the bill that’s before the parliament. This is a budget that does some tough things, and I’m not going to shy away from that.

You know, there’s a point that I actually agree with Michaelia on there and that is that Australians are doing it really tough right now. When I go back to my community I talk to Australian workers who need a tax cut, who need higher wages, who are struggling to get ahead. I talk to young people across my community who would absolutely have owned their own home a generation ago but are stuck in a rent trap being moved from one home to the other.

Our Budget is about making some hard choices – And it’s about to get worse, Clare. – to build a better system for them. Now what I see at the moment is a whole bunch of people sitting at home feeling a system that is stacked against them, and Labor agrees, and that’s why we’re making some big important changes in this Budget. Now, Michaelia’s talked about splitting apart – Then why did you lie to the people before the election? [Inaudible] budget. – Michaelia has talked about splitting apart the bill and let me just be really clear about this – those tough choices that we make in the Budget, they pay for the tax cuts that we’re giving to every single Australian worker watching right now.

If you’re watching at home and you’re wondering how the Budget will affect you – So you rob Peter to pay Paul? – 13 million Australian workers will pay less tax as a consequence of this. Now it’s important that we run a balanced budget and that means that when we give big tax cuts they have to be paid for, that’s why this Budget is a package. And that’s why I implore Michaelia and her colleagues to work with us to get this done.

No one believes the crap you are spinning, Clare. We want to see more first‑home buyers; we want to see Australians paying less tax and that’s what this bill is about. Okay.

Clare, let’s talk about your portfolio. No one believes the crap you’re spinning. Okay.

Let’s talk about your portfolio because it’s obviously housing. We’re seeing auction clearance rates already come down. That’s a mixture of the Budget, the war, inflation, several things.

The Treasurer Jim Chalmers has suggested it could be a good thing if that helps first‑home buyers at those auctions. If the government, Clare, is okay with demand falling, how much does the government want property prices to fall, Clare? Well, that’s not what the government wants and that’s not the effect of the government’s policies, Nat.

House prices in Australia are – It is the effect – – house prices in Australia are – It is the effect. It is the effect, Clare. – house prices in Australia are cyclical. This is the problem.

House prices in Australia are cyclical. They are driven in – the main driver of what happens to them is actually interest rates. So when interest rates are high we tend to see property prices come down.

When interest rates go down we tend to see property prices go up. The effect of the government’s tax changes on house prices is actually muted, so there’s a very modest affordability impact of about a 2 per cent slower growth than we would otherwise have seen in a market where it gross, you know, at a very healthy rate – We’ve seen that in a month though. – on average over time.

So the important thing is that in exchange for the tax changes in the Budget we get something very, very important for the country. And that is 75,000 households that are stuck renting right now into first‑home ownership. I believe that’s a good thing for those families and a very good thing for our country.

Clare, so, Clare, you’re saying that you don’t want property prices to go down to make it easier for first‑home buyers, that’s just something that’s happening? What we want to see is sustainable growth, Nat. So you want them to go up?

Well, Nat, what we want to see is a sustainable growth. We certainly need to see – Is that up or down? – affordability improve. But the government’s changes, Nat, are not what’s driving house prices in our country principally.

Yeah, but just to be clear – The principal driver of it – – do you want house prices to go up or down – – is interest rates. – Clare, as the Housing Minister? Do you want house prices to go up or down? I want to see sustainable growth in house prices.

So that’s up? Well I don’t think we want to see 400 per cent increases in house prices over the last 20 years because that’s been key – But was that up or down – – that’s been key to – – I’m confused. Nat, I’m trying to answer your question.

It might just be me. I’m trying to answer your question. I don’t think we want to see a 400 per cent growth over 20 years, which is what we’ve seen which has locked out probably millions of people around the country from getting the housing opportunities that they deserve.

But I do want to see property prices grow, I want to see them grow sustainably for the country. Okay. Although they’re going down.

Michaelia, last word. And that’s the reality, Nat. This is the problem, okay.

You lie to people before the election and then you deliver uncertainty when you actually make changes. The housing market in Australia, Clare, it is a fact, it runs on confidence. Home buyers need confidence.

Investors need confidence. Builders need confidence. And all you have delivered is uncertainty, and that’s now reflected in the auction clearance rates.

I don’t know if you’ve actually seen Dave Hughes the comedian’s video, it is worth looking at it, because he sums it up. You believed Labor’s lies before the election. You make the biggest purchase of your life; you invest in a house.

Labor lied to you, they changed the rules. And do you know what now happens, Nat? Exactly what we’re seeing, your asset devalues.

And Dave sums it nicely. I won’t use his language, but he says this, ‘It’s all because Albanese insert expletive lied to you’. You can’t lie to the Australian people, Clare, and then not take responsibility for what’s now happening in the housing market.

Okay, we’ll leave it there. Thank you very much, we’ll see you next week.