Interview with Murray Jones, 4CA Cairns

And what a good morning, Murray. Nice to see you in the flesh. MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: You too, Murray.

As I always say, it's always good to be in a studio with another Muzza. MURRAY JONES: Yeah, we're like the Two Ronnies. MURRAY WATT: MURRAY JONES: But we'll come to that in a couple of minutes' time.

Great to see you in Cairns. Tell me a little bit more about the Ocean Business Leaders’ Symposium. Pretty special event for Cairns.

Haven't heard a great deal about it, so keen to find out some more. MURRAY WATT: Yeah, it's a really big deal for Cairns to be hosting this conference, Murray, and I'm really pleased to be in town to be part of it today. So basically, this is being run by a not-for-profit organisation called Ocean Decade Australia, and their mission, if you like, is to try to bring together all of the different perspectives that there are about how we should manage and use and protect the ocean.

Because when you think about it, the ocean covers more of the earth than land does. It is massive. MURRAY JONES: Sure – two thirds, isn't it?

MURRAY WATT: I think it's something like that. And Australia, of course, is surrounded by ocean, whether it be the Pacific, the Indian, the Southern Ocean, and of course, lots of seas as well. And people don't necessarily realise the number of things that are going on in the ocean.

Of course, as the Environment Minister, I've got a really strong interest in protecting the ocean's environment, but it's such an important economic driver as well. Here in Cairns, of course, the tourism industry relies very heavily on the ocean and the Reef, of course. But you've got energy resources, whether it be gas that's been developed out of the ocean, particularly on the West Coast.

You've got offshore wind starting to come on board as well. The fishing industry, massive contributors to our economy and users of the ocean. But even as a trade route, and as we've seen recently with some of the global fuel issues, we rely on our oceans for trade - MURRAY JONES: Strait of Hormuz, yeah.

MURRAY WATT: And bringing things in and out of the country. So you've got all these different people who've got a view and an interest about how we manage our oceans. And not often enough do we see all those different views brought together to plan for the future, and that's what this conference is about.

So it'll be great to get to mix with people from all those different industries, from the environment sector, and also what's special about this conference is that it's also attracted a number of Pacific country leaders to come here as well. The use and sharing of the Pacific Ocean is a really important way that we can connect with Pacific nations. I think everyone understands that there are other parts of other countries around the world that have got a big interest in the Pacific, if you know what I mean.

MURRAY JONES: Yeah, and it rising, maybe, as well. MURRAY WATT: And rising. And so we've got all these shared interests, and it's important that we get to know and work with our neighbours in the Pacific on issues that matter to both of us, and that's what we'll be doing today.

MURRAY JONES: And look, with respect, at first glance, I thought maybe it was going to be one of these green talkfests, but from what you've just set out, the fishing industry, the energy industry, of course, tourism, even possibly naval when it comes to the maritime base we've got here as well. So it's not just about the conservation, it's about the best use and, I guess, protecting those oceans for future use.

MURRAY WATT: That's exactly right, Murray. I mean, absolutely protecting the ocean environment will be a focus of this conference. And when you think about it, industries like fishing and tourism depend upon having a healthy ocean.

So there's a really strong economic interest in protecting the ocean environment as well. But as you say, there'll be people representing all of those different industries there today. And my view, and I think our government's view overall, is that you get the best solutions by bringing different perspectives together and trying to map out a bit of a common solution.

MURRAY JONES: You always get this perspective, and I've travelled a bit in Asia, and when you do see the state of the fisheries and some of the oceans and the seas in Asia, in a pretty bad way. I mean, at the end of the day, there's always this argument – if they're not looking after the oceans there in Asia, why are we spending so much time and money looking after the oceans closer to home when there's other people that are polluting and causing more issues for the ocean?

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, look, certainly there are other parts of the world that frankly don't do as good a job as Australia does when it comes to our ocean management. But that in itself is actually a real asset for Australia. We've been able to export a lot of our knowledge and our skills and our experience when it comes to ocean management.

As you would know, the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority is regarded as a world leader when it comes to managing coral reefs, and that expertise is in demand in other parts of the world. So that's a good opportunity for us as well. Look, I think from Australia's perspective, I think we do want to be the best at everything, don't we?

That's what Aussies are about. MURRAY JONES: Sure, yeah. MURRAY WATT: And we do want to have the best standards when it comes to protecting our oceans.

You know, I think a lot of Australians feel really attached to the ocean. It's a big part of our national identity. I think it's about nearly nine out of 10 Australians live within about 50 kilometres of the ocean.

So it's really strong- it pulls at the heartstrings. But as I say, keeping our oceans in a healthy state environmentally is how we have a viable fishing industry going forward. It's how we have a viable fishing industry going forward.

So all those jobs that depend upon having a healthy ocean, you don't have to be a massive greenie to care about the ocean. You know, recreational fishers - MURRAY JONES: MURRAY WATT: How many people are there probably listening to this program who are going to go out on a tinny on the weekend to fish? And again, it's no good doing that if you haven't got a healthy ocean, right?

MURRAY JONES: MURRAY WATT: So that's why we've got to protect it. MURRAY JONES: Righto. Look, can we change pace just a little bit, and obviously with some of the pressure we've had from the US in relation to increasing our defence spending.

Pauline Hanson's obviously heeded the call and we are living in fairly difficult times. Defence spending is important. She has been talking about building defence by quite a significant degree.

What are your thoughts about her announcements in the last couple of days? MURRAY WATT: Yeah, I think one of the things that we're starting to see around One Nation, Murray, is that because they are growing in the polls, and let's face it, they are and they are getting asked a few more hard questions than they have in the past as well. If you actually say that you want to be able to run a government or have lots of people in Parliament, you've got to be able to put forward the basic things like what are your policies, how much are they going to cost, what would you have to cut to pay for them.

MURRAY JONES: MURRAY WATT: And there was a story out in one of the media outlets this week that One Nation saying that they want to increase our defence budget to be 5 per cent of the overall Australian Government budget. Now look, at first blush that might sound like a sensible thing to do, and our government is increasing defence expenditure. But to have 5 per cent of our Australian budget would end up meaning it'd be $400 billion that would need to be found to deliver on that commitment.

But, of course, you can't get One Nation to say how they're going to pay for it. Are they going to be lifting taxes to pay for it? Are they going to be cutting healthcare to pay for it?

And I just think it's important if you want to run for Parliament, and especially if you claim that you want to be running the government, you've got to be able to answer these basic questions. And if you can't, it raises real questions about whether you're actually ready to govern. You know, I recognise that there's a lot of people out there, probably people listening to this program, who are feeling really frustrated about life.

Life's really hard for a lot of people, and I get it. And that's why as a government we're putting so much effort into cutting the average worker's tax and lifting healthcare and making bulk billing more available, all those kind of things that I might mention One Nation has voted against all of those things. So I get it that people are really frustrated, but you've also got to think about who has what it takes to actually run a government, to put forward policies that actually are going to make people's lives easier, not harder, and how are you going to pay for them.

So we're a couple of years out from a federal election. Lots can happen between now and then. But I think you are starting to see One Nation come under a bit more pressure to explain what they stand for and how they're going to do it.

And they should play by the same rules as everyone else. If you want to run for Parliament, you've got to explain, right? MURRAY JONES: And even Andrew Bolt from Sky had a go the other day too, so they're certainly under a lot more scrutiny.

MURRAY WATT: MURRAY JONES: When you're talking about that uncertainty, let's just quickly reflect on the budget. You know, why now? Why do we need to change the status quo when it comes to particularly, obviously, negative gearing and capital gains tax?

MURRAY WATT: It's a great question, Murray, and I think this really comes to the heart, I reckon, of what people are feeling at the moment. I think part of the reason why a lot of people are going to One Nation is that they're really, if I can use these words, they're really pissed off at how the system is going. MURRAY JONES: Sure, yeah.

MURRAY WATT: And people understandably want things to change. They want their lives to become that little bit easier. They want to be able to afford to go on a holiday or afford to have a night out with the kids sometime.

But if we're going to do that, things do need to change because the current system isn't working. And that's why, as a government, we've taken a decision to make some pretty big changes to our tax system. You know, I think a lot of people don't realise that for all those people who are listening, who are going to work today and earn their income by going to work every day, they pay more tax on the dollar than someone who is owning five houses or has a massive share portfolio who's able to access all sorts of tax discounts.

Now, I don't begrudge people owning homes, owning a share portfolio, but I don't really understand why they should be paying less tax on the dollar than a truckie who's going to work every day or a nurse who's going to work every day, doing important work for our community and earning a wage. So this is why we're doing this, is to try to make the system fairer.

It's not fair enough as it is at the moment. There's so many younger people especially who are locked out of the housing market, simply cannot afford it. And that's because of the system that's been built over the last couple of decades.

So as a government, we can sit back and say, everything's fine, nothing needs to change. You know, let's keep going the way we are. MURRAY JONES: It would be safer politically.

MURRAY WATT: It would be safer politically. And frankly, that's what we're basically hearing from the Liberal, National and One Nation parties. They're opposing these changes.

So they're saying nothing needs to change, the system is working, and it's not. People need a break, and that's what Labor's trying to do through these tax changes. MURRAY JONES: My lad, he's having a birthday today and he's certainly trying to get into the housing market, so I know that something does have to change, there's no doubt about it.

MURRAY WATT: Well, that's the thing, Murray. Obviously, for younger people, there's a lot in this budget. But you're right, people with kids, people with grandkids, they're really worried about their kids' future and whether they can get into the housing market.

So I think there's a lot more interest in these policies out there than what we see sometimes from some parts of the media. MURRAY JONES: The two Murrays. So it's a good morning from you and it's good morning from me.

MURRAY WATT: It is. Good morning from the two Murrays, I guess! MURRAY JONES: The two Ronnies as well.

Senator Murray Watt. He’s the Federal Minister for Environment and Water. Great to have you in town, and thank you so much for your time this morning.

MURRAY WATT: Good on you, Muzza. Good to see you. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of country throughout Australia and recognise their continuing connection to land, waters and culture.

We pay our respects to their Elders past, present and emerging.