Interview with Jenny Marchant, ABC Newcastle

JENNY MARCHANT: The Energy and Climate Change Minister, Chris Bowen’s, in our region this afternoon. He's just officially opened a clean technology facility on Kooragang Island. MCi Carbon is taking carbon emissions and changing it into new building materials for construction.

It's been operating for a little while now but had some VIP’s on site for today's big event. Now, this comes on the same day as the gas project, PEP 11, proposed for off the Hunter and Central Coast has been rejected outright by the Federal Court. A bit to discuss with the Minister, Chris Bowen, who's spared us some time.

Thank you and good afternoon, Minister. CHRIS BOWEN: Pleasure, Jenny. Good afternoon.

JENNY MARCHANT: Thank you. Let's start with the event that brought you to the Hunter. This Kooragang Island facility taking carbon dioxide emissions, turning them into products, other materials.

What kind of potential does that technology have to deal with carbon emissions in Australia? CHRIS BOWEN: It's got the potential to help. So, this is a project that Sharon Claydon and I launched about two years ago.

We started construction and then we've come back today to finish the job and open the facility. So, it's a project which takes carbon out of ammonia and then puts it into bricks and paper and tiles and carpet and all sorts of things, really, which stores the carbon and means that it's not released into the atmosphere. Now, obviously we're doing a lot of work to reduce emissions and reduce emissions production, but there are sectors where it's hard to do that.

And the next best thing to do is capture the emissions. And if you can capture it in things like bricks, it's not going anywhere and it replaces other products that would otherwise have to go into the brick to make it hard. So, it's a good project.

JENNY MARCHANT: Does it remove an incentive for those industries that might find it difficult to reduce emissions? CHRIS BOWEN: No, there's plenty of incentive and need to do that. But as I said, there are industries where it's just very hard to reduce emissions, and we need to find other ways to do that.

And this is part of the many arrows we have at our disposal here. This is not a one size fits all. Emissions reduction on site, actual technology to reduce emissions is very good but it's not always easy.

And whether it’s brick making or cement making or fertiliser making, in some places it's harder than others. And this is one technology which we can deploy. There's 50 jobs on Kooragang Island there now - so it's not jobs of the future, operating now.

Highly skilled jobs and that's great. And I think, you know, this is going to reduce emissions or reduce carbon by two and a half thousand tonnes a year, create 10,000 tonnes of product. And that's just the start.

Over time, we can build it into something even better. JENNY MARCHANT: Minister Bowen, to another issue on the boil this afternoon. The Federal Court has, well, rejected outright that PEP 11 project, an offshore gas exploration project, off our coast.

So, as it stands now, that will not go ahead. What's your reaction to today's development? CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, so obviously this is a welcome Federal Court decision which has upheld a Federal Government decision.

I won't say too much about it because it's a court case. But you know, the relevant minister made the decision some time ago - that was appealed, that's okay, that's the way the law works. But the Federal Court has made the decision today to uphold the original decision, and so PEP 11 won't proceed.

JENNY MARCHANT: In the Government's view, does this decision mark the very end of PEP 11? Is it over now? CHRIS BOWEN: Well, there's always rights of appeal that people will consider - I won't comment too much on that.

But, you know, obviously it's better that the minister's decision has been upheld - that's a good thing. JENNY MARCHANT: What was wrong with the plan for PEP 11? CHRIS BOWEN: I think- look, it's not my portfolio, but I think the relevant minister took all the decisions, all the measures into account, made the decision.

There's obviously very strong community views about that which we understand. But the minister made the decision on the basis of the law with all the facts in front of him at the time, and the Federal Court has ruled that decision was properly exercised. JENNY MARCHANT: To matters remaining offshore from the Hunter of course, Minister Bowen, you would be aware that the Hunter offshore wind zone remains a contentious issue here, particularly in Port Stephens.

Now, you opened the area for research and demonstration licences in January. Your offices told the ABC that no licences have been granted at this time. Is offshore wind off the Hunter dead in the water?

CHRIS BOWEN: No, but it's taking longer to get up and running than many people hoped. It is controversial, as you said - I accept that. There's plenty of strong support, there's some people against it - you know, that's understandable.

We've dealt with a lot of those issues. If there is an R&D licence issued to try and show that it is viable in the Hunter, then there will certainly be consultation around that. Any particular licence issued would go through the normal process of consultation.

JENNY MARCHANT: Has anyone applied for a licence? CHRIS BOWEN: Not at this point. Not at this point.

And if there was, then that would go through all the normal consultation process. JENNY MARCHANT: Why do you think no one's taking you up on that? CHRIS BOWEN: I think offshore wind around the world does have an important role to play.

I was just in Europe looking at- you know, seeing offshore wind as part of my meetings. It is happening around the world, but it is proving more difficult at this point. Technologies do go through sort of cycles.

For example, batteries - the cost of batteries to come down dramatically. That hasn't happened with offshore wind just yet but that doesn't mean that, in the longer term, it won't become more viable. And indeed, around the world there are investments happening.

But markets like Australia, which is very late to offshore wind - the rest of the world's been doing it a lot longer than us - are finding it's taking a little bit longer. JENNY MARCHANT: Why? Why is Australia having a harder time with this industry than other countries?

We had Novocastrian Wind walk away from a feasibility licence and now nobody applying for research and demonstration. Why is Australia having a hard time with this? CHRIS BOWEN: Because it's been up and running in Europe, for example, for 30 years.

You know, when you've got an industry that's worked for a long time you find that the industry is more developed, easier to do. Where you're starting an industry from scratch and you're late to it, it, will take longer and will become more challenges. That's certainly the case - you know, we accept that, understand that.

There are some technologies which will happen quicker and be cheaper and, you know, really knock it out of the park like we're doing with batteries - we're leading the world in batteries at the moment in Australia. Others will take longer and be more difficult. JENNY MARCHANT: Is the Government then still committed to this project and offshore wind in the Hunter?

CHRIS BOWEN: Well, when you say a project, we've never put a particular project up. That's up to the private sector and what they decide. JENNY MARCHANT: Well, the concept of offshore wind in the Hunter.

CHRIS BOWEN: Sure. Yeah well, as I said, we've declared the zone, which means it is open for people to make submissions. Whether those submissions occur or not is a matter for the private sector, ultimately.

As I said, there are other offshore wind zones which are more advanced, like Gippsland, you know, where it is proceeding. Newcastle and Hunter is not at the top of the list at the moment in terms of projects that are proceeding - that is true. And you know, the private sector will decide whether to come forward with those proposals or not.

JENNY MARCHANT: Does that research and demonstration- you know, the availability of research and demonstration licences lapse at some point, or do you keep this open to see what happens? CHRIS BOWEN: Yeah, it's open to see what happens. You know, research and development projects or demonstration projects are useful to show that it's viable and to learn things as you go.

For the industry that's useful, but it's up to the private sector to come forward with proposals. JENNY MARCHANT: The Energy and Climate Change Minister, Chris Bowen, is with me on 1233 Drive. He's been in our region today.

Minister, Pauline Hanson addressed the National Press Club for the first time today. She described the Government's net zero nonsense, what she described as a failing energy policy. We do have this issue in the Hunter, the transition from coal to renewable energy, and it comes at a time when the popularity of One Nation is increasing locally.

Has the Government, the Federal Government, misread the mood in the Hunter when it comes to the energy transition? CHRIS BOWEN: I don't think so ,and I get a lot of for policies in the Hunter. Seeing jobs created today, 50 jobs at Kooragang Island.

You know, we're supported… JENNY MARCHANT: Fifty highly skilled jobs on Kooragang Island, though, doesn't, you know, replace a mine when it closes, for instance. CHRIS BOWEN: No, but that's one project. We've also launched the solar foundry in the Hunter, making solar panels in Australia, in New South Wales, for the first time in many, years – jobs across the board.

And look, people understand, I think, the vast majority of people, climate change is real. Pauline Hanson denies that. She denies the science of climate change.

Most people don't. Most people accept that climate change is real. It's also the case that renewable energy is the cheapest form of energy.

We've started to see energy bills come down now and there's a lot of jobs to be created. Yes, there is economic change. You can pretend that's not happening, like Pauline Hanson, and pretend the world isn't changing and 80 per cent of our trading partners aren’t committed to net zero.

Or you can acknowledge climate change is real. There's economic opportunities and challenges from time to time, but opportunities as well. And places like the Hunter, with all the energy skills that the Hunter’s had over so many generations, are well placed to take those opportunities and, under this Government, will.

JENNY MARCHANT: Well, and this is all happening though with One Nation rising in popularity here, what- has Labor failed to explain this properly, act fast enough? And how will you address that that in the Hunter? CHRIS BOWEN: By delivering.

By delivering and doing the sorts of things we're doing today. I'm a regular visitor to the Hunter, I think I've been 16 times in my time as Minister, opening new projects, delivering jobs, delivering progress and talking about the benefits. And you know, there's a long way to the next election.

Some people might decide- might think the next election has been decided. People said Labor wasn't going to win the last election too. We put our case to the people.

We earn every vote. We treat every voter with respect. We put our case.

I don't believe the next election's been decided either way. I believe we have to earn, every party, has to earn the respect of the voters and put its plans forward. We'll be putting our plans forward.

We'll be putting our progress forward. We'll be putting our achievements forward. Pauline Hanson, obviously, will do the same in terms of her plans to the degree she's got them.

She doesn't believe in climate change. She doesn't believe in renewable energy. The majority of Australians do.

I mean, Australians are getting on with it. The Hunter is, for example, one of the leading places with the take-up of our cheaper home batteries policy. The electorate of Hunter is in the top 10 electorates in New South Wales - people getting on with the job [unaudible] bills, in many cases, to zero by putting in batteries with the support of the Albanese Government.

That is the outer suburbs and regions getting on with it [unaudible]… JENNY MARCHANT: Minister Bowen, yeah… CHRIS BOWEN: …but embracing the opportunities of climate action. JENNY MARCHANT: I understand the point you're making there. We're having phone issues.

We will leave it there. Appreciate your time this afternoon and hope that we can have more discussions as the election gets closer. Chris Bowen there, the Energy and Climate Change Minister.

We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of country throughout Australia and recognise their continuing connection to land, waters and culture. We pay our respects to their Elders past, present and emerging.