Interview with Tom Connell, Sky News

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Well, Pauline Hanson has made her Press Club debut. She says she hasn't changed, but people's views have gone to her. Earlier, I spoke with the Environment Minister, Murray Watt.

Started by asking him whether that's accurate. MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Well, I certainly think we have seen today that Pauline Hanson hasn't changed in that she's continuing to argue for a more divided Australia, a more chaotic Australia and an Australia that actually makes life harder for working people. I mean, I saw in the question and answer session that she was asked about her record in terms of industrial relations and she doubled down and said that the workplace laws that are seeing wages rise need a complete overhaul.

She said that it's too hard to sack people. I mean, you've got to ask the question, how that is going to make life easier for working people in Australia at a time when they're already doing it really tough. TOM CONNELL: Small business owners might be agreeing with her, though.

They talk about being swamped with red tape and things keep going up, we've seen quite a few insolvencies. So, is there an element of truth to that? MURRAY WATT: Small businesses need customers, and you have customers when working people have got money in their pocket.

If Pauline Hanson's recipe for workplace laws were to happen, then you'd see more people losing their jobs because she says it's too hard to sack people, you'd see wages going down because that's her voting record - voting with the Liberals to drive wages down. It's not going to help small businesses to have more people unemployed or more people with less money in their pocket.

Those businesses need customers who've got money in their pockets. And that's why Labor's worked so hard to get wages up against the opposition of One Nation and the Liberals. It's why we're trying to deliver those tax cuts for Australian workers that One Nation is opposing along with the Liberals.

You know, every Australian will tell you that the biggest issue they're facing is their cost of living pressures. You've got Labor on the one hand lifting wages, trying to deliver tax cuts to workers, subsidising health care more, and on the other hand, you've got One Nation and the Liberals opposing wage rises, opposing tax cuts for workers and wanting to cut health spending.

I mean, I thought that was a really significant statement from Pauline Hanson today where she said that, not only does she want to get rid of the Department of Climate Change and Environment, she wants to cut the Health Department. It's the Health Department that are helping to fund the increased Medicare services and the increased bulk billing that is helping Australians with their cost of living.

So, under Pauline Hanson and the Liberals you'd be earning lower wages and you'd be paying more to see a doctor. TOM CONNELL: The number one cost of living issue for anyone with a mortgage has been the rate rises. She says she'd spend less money overall.

The Government has still been handing down budgets in major deficit and not reducing in spending over the forward estimate, so that is putting pressure on inflation. So that- Labor hasn't helped on that measure, have they? MURRAY WATT: Well, as Jim Chalmers and Katy Gallagher have regularly said, our Government has made billions of dollars, tens of billions of dollars in savings over the last four years.

And of course, right now we're trying to make further savings to the NDIS when we can't- we haven't yet had confirmation from One Nation or the Coalition that they support that. So we are doing the hard work of generating those savings. You know, what we saw from Pauline Hanson again today was that she wants more nuclear power, and she hasn't ruled out government subsidies for nuclear power.

That's going to just drive the debt and deficit up even higher. She's choosing the most expensive form of power that we can possibly use in order to support more power production in Australia, and that will drive power prices up and it will increase government debt. You know, I've seen another media outlet recently report on her plan for defence spending, which would cost something in the order of $400 billion.

Where's that money going to come from? I mean, that has to mean either more debt and deficit for Australians, higher taxes for Australians, or absolutely savage cuts to healthcare, which is what she's opened the door to today. TOM CONNELL: Do you think- well, let me ask it this way.

What does Labor need to do differently about countering Pauline Hanson and One Nation? Because clearly what's happened over the past year is not working. MURRAY WATT: I think we need to take a bit of a breath about the polling.

For starters, it's two years out from an election. Secondly, the overwhelming majority of increased support from One Nation comes off the back of a collapsed Liberal and National Party vote. But we recognise that some Labor supporters are considering voting for One Nation, and that's largely because they're doing it tough right now.

So in terms of what we need to do to counter that, we need to relentlessly stay focused on the cost of living issues that are worrying Australians most. We're not going to get dragged off course by, you know, culture wars around transgender issues like Pauline Hanson's introduced today. We're not going to get dragged off course by talking about nuclear power and the increased power bills that that involves.

What we're going to stay focused on is how we can support Australians to have higher wages, pay lower taxes if they're working people, and supporting people with their health care and other costs of living. I think when it comes time, I'm very comfortable with going to an election in a couple of years' time demonstrating what we've done to support Australians through their cost of living pressures, and be able to demonstrate that every single step of the way One Nation has teamed up with the Liberals to try to block every form of cost of living relief that we've delivered.

TOM CONNELL: Fixing a problem requires recognising it. It is true, isn't it, that Labor has lost voters to One Nation? You've lost a significant chunk of your primary vote compared to the last election.

MURRAY WATT: I mean, clearly what the opinion polls show right now, two years out from an election, is that there are some Labor voters that are considering voting for One Nation. Now of course, that would be highly regionalised - it would be higher in some areas than other areas. I suspect what you would find is that there are parts of our big cities where traditional Liberal voters are actually considering voting for Labor because they're worried about that emerging coalition between the Liberal Party and One Nation.

But the bottom line is, these are polls that are being taken right now. They're well in advance of an election. I absolutely concede that we have got more work to do to assist Australians with their cost of living pressures, but we've got a plan to do that.

That's why we've got that legislation in the Parliament right now to make sure that every Australian worker gets a tax cut. And One Nation, along with the Liberal Party, wants to stop that from happening. They want Australian workers to pay more tax.

That's what they're doing by voting against that legislation. Again, One Nation have said, if you're a working person in Australia they want your job to be at risk and they want your wages to go down. That is not going to help people with their cost of living pressures.

And I think, over time, many people will realise that as tough as life is right now, and it is for many people, it will be a lot tougher if Pauline Hanson and the Liberal Party were forming some kind of coalition government. TOM CONNELL: So is it fair to say that you are taking this challenge seriously, but you don't think it needs some dramatic shift in what Labor's either doing or talking about?

MURRAY WATT: Well, we absolutely are taking this challenge seriously and we are also absolutely serious about changing Australia in a way that benefits working people. We recognise that there are many Australians out there who think that the system is not working for them right now. Again, that is why we are trying to deliver tax cuts, that's why we're trying to make it fairer for people who work for a living in terms of the tax they pay and people who own investment properties and share portfolios.

I mean, what One Nation and the Liberal Party are doing right now by opposing our tax reforms is saying that it's fair for someone who owns five investment properties or a massive share portfolio to be paying less tax on their income per dollar than someone who goes to work every day. I'd like to see Pauline Hanson go out and argue to a truckie or a tradie or a nurse or a teacher aide why they should be paying more tax per dollar than someone who owns five investment properties or a massive share portfolio.

TOM CONNELL: Got an announcement today for nominations for heritage places, so new heritage places to be nominated. There's a list here, for example, birth and extension of Australian democracy, fairness in the workplace society. Are these basically things that already exist, but you want to give them that exalted status - protection?

What else actually comes with that designation? MURRAY WATT: Yeah, this is really about celebrating the things that make us special as Australians. And you know, right across the country, we've already heritage-listed buildings and stories that really tell Australia's story.

I'm actually speaking to you right outside the Royal Exhibition Building in Melbourne, which is where the first sitting of the Federal Parliament was held, and that's on the National Heritage List. You've got places like the Eureka Stockade, which is on the National Heritage List, recognising a really important struggle of working people to get fair conditions for their work.

These are the kind of things that we want to see more of on our National Heritage List. It's really about recognising that there's nothing more Australian than the fair go. And what we're seeking is nominations for the Heritage List that recognise the places and stories that recognise how Australia's become fairer and more inclusive.

And I guess that's a bit of a contrast to what we saw from Pauline Hanson today, who wants more division and a less equal society. What we're about is more fairness, more equality, and we want to celebrate those stories, so that's why we're encouraging people to nominate things for the National Heritage List. TOM CONNELL: Minister, appreciate your time today.

Thank you. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of country throughout Australia and recognise their continuing connection to land, waters and culture. We pay our respects to their Elders past, present and emerging.