Radio interview with Minister Rae, ABC Radio Perth – 19 June 2026

Media event date: 19 June 2026 Date published: 19 June 2026 Media type: General public NADIA MITSOPOULOS, HOST: So let's get an update on this situation and what will be done to fix it with Sam Rae, who is the Federal Aged Care Minister. Minister, thank you for joining me. SAM RAE, MINISTER FOR AGED CARE AND SENIORS: Good morning.

Nadia. Thank you for having me. If we just look at that algorithm first, why is there no human override option when it rejects someone for aged care support?

Nadia, I think we just have to take a quick step back and understand why we've reformed the assessment system. The old assessment system wasn't working. It was taking too long.

It was inaccurate. And it was giving out very unfair outcomes to older people all across the country. And that's why we brought in this Single Assessment System and the Integrated Assessment Tool that you refer to is part of that.

But there is a lot of misinformation about that, so let me clear a few things up right from the start. There are people involved at every single step of the assessment process. The assessment is conducted by trained assessors, human beings who are very highly skilled, who work with older people to understand what their functional needs are and what the evolution of those needs looks like so that we can then make determinations about what sort of care is most appropriate to give them.

Once they do that original assessment, there's then the automated component to which you're referring, and that is the application of the aged care rules themselves. And they have to be the same for everybody. That's the automated component, the application of the rules so that that it is standardised and everybody is treated fairly.

There's then a second person who then looks at that outcome. That person is called the assessor delegate and they look at that outcome to make sure that it's right before the outcome is signed off on. Then if the older person or their family are still unhappy with that outcome, they can apply to the Department for a review of the outcome and a third person then goes through their assessment details and information to understand how best to attribute their care.

But at that point when that algorithm is used, isn't it the case though that once that decision had been made, that decision then goes to the person, the applicant, and at that point is there actually human eyes going, is that the right decision that's been made? Wasn't that the issue? Well, I think what has been raised by some people is whether the assessors themselves at that initial point of assessment should be able to effectively change the aged care rules to suit the person in front of them.

And we've got to understand these are wonderful people, these assessors, they're highly trained and we can all appreciate that if you're sitting in front of somebody who's in need of care, which is often the case, almost always the case in fact, the natural human inclination is to want to, you know, make the changes that are necessary to get them the very best thing available.

So we can understand that human inclination. Is it about changing the rules, though, or is it about just making sure that person's been assessed fairly? Well, again, these people are clinically trained to do the assessment.

That's what we want them to do. We want them to use their clinical skills to do the assessment, to collect all of that data and put it into the IAT. Then it goes to that second person, the assessment delegate, to make sure that that's being done correctly.

Now, if there is a poor outcome coming out of that assessment, that's why we've got the robust process in place so that we can have that reviewed by a third party in the Department to make sure that we are distributing the care across the system, across the country to older people in the best manner possible, getting the best outcomes for those older people.

You've had around a thousand complaints. Does that sort of indicate though that maybe this is not a perfect system? Well, I think we need to understand that in its context.

There will always be people who are dissatisfied with a particular system. But in the last two quarters, under this new assessment system, we have assessed 260,000 people. 260,000 assessments. That is a significant uplift from any assessment system that preceded it.

And so what we're seeing is about half of one per cent of people seeking a review, which suggests that well above 99 per cent of the time, the system is working accurately. I think when we're using systems like this, we have to accept that we do need some ability to understand where the one size fits all doesn't fit absolutely everybody. And so that's why the review process is in place, where it's not getting the outcome that we need.

People can apply for that review, but it is a very, very small percentage that are doing so. Okay. And when people are rejected, they tell us that they don't get told why they've been rejected.

Would you change that so decisions are explained to them? Well, there is a feedback mechanism. There's a whole range of consultation that is in place.

And of course people should have- But they want to know at the point of rejection why they've been rejected, which is probably a fair enough request to understand why they're not being approved. Well, I'm not quite sure what you mean by rejected. There's not really a rejection mechanism.

It's not really how the system works. No, but if you apply for some funding and you don't get it, you've been rejected, right? Well, that's a very, very small number of people, Nadia.

It's very unusual. Once you enter the assessment process, you're generally in need of care. Now, there are different levels of care that people need.

Some people need entry-level care, which can be provided under our Commonwealth Home Support system. We've got about 830,000 Australians receiving community-based care under the CHSP, it's called. Some people need an elevated level of care from there, which we can provide under Support at Home.

And by the end of this month, there'll be over 380,000 Australians receiving care under Support at Home, and then obviously we've got the residential aged care system. So it's effectively a tiered care system, but the one assessment process. So generally people aren't rejected, it's about making sure that they're getting the right sort of care that meets their needs and expectations.

My guest this morning is Sam Rae, the Aged Care Minister at 21 Minutes to 9 on 102.5 ABC Perth and right across WA. So regards to the concerns about the algorithm, will you need to change anything or are you happy to let that continue as is? Nadia, I've been very clear since I took this role on about 12 months ago.

And as we roll out these generational reforms, there's a reason that we're doing so much work in the aged care space. We know the aged care system wasn't fit for purpose. We know that it had been letting down older Australians and their families for a number of years beforehand.

I'm looking at absolutely everything to get the best outcomes for older people. I've already made a number of changes to the new system. Minister Butler and I announced just the other day that we are going to conduct a rapid review of the prioritisation components sitting within the assessment system.

So, the answer to that is we will absolutely continue to make improvements, and at every opportunity to get better outcomes for older people, we'll take those opportunities. : Minister, on another matter, if we just look at some of those sort of stubborn waiting times that you have to deal with, at the moment, what have we got? 100,000 people approved for aged care home support packages, still waiting to get them, and another 98,000 waiting to be assessed.

Is that acceptable? : Well, can I just de-conflate two things there. You started talking about wait times and then we talked about wait lists, and they are distinctly different things, Nadia. And you're right, we do have wait lists, and the reality is the challenge that we're facing is an ageing population.

We all know that. But to truly understand the scale of that, one of the key metrics that policymakers use is the number of people in our community who are turning 80 years old, because that's sort of a key point in life when you're in aged care services. Next year, there'll be 90,000 Australians that will turn 80, will have an 80th birthday.

Now, 15 years ago, that was just 15,000 Australians. So it's grown 600 per cent in 15 years. And that gives you some understanding of the scale of the challenge that we face to ensure that our care system responds to that increase in demand.

Now, my focus is making sure that the experience of older people in the care system is as best as it can possibly be. You talked about the assessment waitlist. As I said, in the last two quarters, we did 260,000 assessments.

That's significantly higher than the number of people on the waitlist, obviously. So even though the demand is high, you can see that our systems are responding to that demand and making sure that people aren't waiting around as long as they used to be. The same thing when it comes to the Support at Home packages.

And look, there's more to be done here. I don't want to gild the lily Nadia, but we are seeing the green shoots of improvement from the changes that we're making. People who are classified with urgent priority always receive their packages of care within a single month.

We're seeing wait times coming down for all other priority classifications. At some points, we saw people waiting up to 12 months. The highest wait times that we're seeing at the moment for people who have what they call standard priority is now seven to eight months.

High priority people receive their packages in one to two months, medium priority in six to seven months. So we're driving down those wait times… : And do you think that's still too high? What's your target? : Yeah, I do.

Where I want to get it, and the Prime Minister, the Health Minister and I have been clear that our ambition is to drive that wait time down to three months. And that's what we're driving towards at the moment. : And how quickly do you think you can get to that target of three months? : Well, we're aiming for that for the middle of next year. So this is a very rapid improvement that we're driving through this system at the moment.

Of course, the new Support at Home system only came into place in November, Nadia. So we're seeing these improvements happening very rapidly, we have to work closely with the sector who are doing extraordinary work to build their capacity and capability in order to respond to this increased demand. Within Support at Home, by the end of this financial year, we'll have over 380,000.

By the end of next financial year, it'll be 420,000 Australians receiving support at home. In 2020, that was only about 155,000 Australians. So this sector will have nearly tripled in size in just that period of time.

That gives you an understanding of the workforce dynamics that we're going to have to recruit more people, we're going to have to train more people, we're going to have to keep the amazing people we've got. So it's about working with the sector, working with older people themselves to make sure that we've got the care systems in place to respond to that increase in demand. : And Minister, as we'll remind you, this is why we have a census because this is not something that happened overnight.

This is something that we could see coming and building for some years. But on residential aged care, I was speaking a couple of weeks ago to Clare Grieveson from the Southern Cross Care. They had done some modelling and she was saying that it costs about $600,000 to build for one residential aged care place.

Do you agree with that figure? Is that pretty accurate? : It varies between different places, but I think it's a perfectly serviceable figure when we're talking about the decisions that we've got to make in order to increase supply. : And then she was saying that we would need just here in WA another five and a half thousand residential aged care beds by 2030 to meet demand.

That's an impossible task, isn't it? : It's a very challenging task, that's for sure, Nadia. The figures that we talk about at the moment are that we need about 10,000 new units of residential aged care every single year nationally. Last year, we got about 800.

And a couple of things just for clarity here. The Federal Government, and indeed no government really, is the owner or the purchaser of these products in the sense that we don't build the aged care centres. They're operated largely by either not-for-profit organisations or companies that work within the aged care sector and specialise in residential aged care delivery.

That said, the Federal Government funds the care that occurs within those facilities, both in terms of the actual clinical care itself as well as some of the accommodation costs for residents along the way as well. So we have to work closely with the sector to rapidly lift the level of supply. But you're very right, you point this out.

This is not a terribly unforeseeable surprise. For a long number of years, governments have ignored the demographics, the ageing nature of our community, and they haven't made the significant investments required. That's why under the Morrison government, we ended up in a Royal Commission into care, quality and safety within the aged care space.

And it's why our Government has been so focused on reforming this sector, driving increases in supply, improving the quality of care and making sure that we are looking after the older people across our community that so badly deserve it. : And absolutely, the spotlight needs to be on this issue. And yes, your Government is doing that, but you'd also argue previous governments that were not on the ball on this would probably also include previous Labor governments.

Again, this has been 15-20 years in the making. : Well, as you would know, the last aged care minister who really took this challenge up in the Rudd and Gillard governments, previous to that decade of the Liberal governments, was a guy named Mark Butler. And he was a very, very passionate aged care minister, and he put in place at that time a decade plan to improve and build the aged care sector to respond to the demographic challenge of baby boomers entering the care system.

And as we know, when Tony Abbott was elected, they went into that first budget, they cut the aged care system, and then they spent the next 10 years neglecting the system and the sector overall, which resulted in a Royal Commission. The single word that the Royal Commission report had on the front of it was neglect. So we went from a situation where the public policy work had been done by Mark Butler as the aged care minister to set us up for a decade of improvement that was immediately slashed when the conservatives were elected.

So I don't want to be overly partisan about this, Nadia, but I do want to get the facts straight. We're now playing catch-up. We shouldn't have had to be in this position.

We're now playing catch-up. But my focus every single day is getting the best outcomes for older people and making sure that their experiences within the system are the best that they can be. MITSOPOULOS : All right, I'll leave it there.

And I do appreciate your time, Minister. Thanks for joining us. : Thank you, Nadia. The Hon Sam Rae MP Is there anything wrong with this page?

Help us improve health.gov.au If you would like a response please provide an email address. Your email address is covered by our privacy policy Email address What you were doing? (mandatory) What went wrong?

(mandatory) Leave this field blank Accessibility We acknowledge the Traditional Owners and Custodians of Country throughout Australia, and their continuing connection to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to them and their cultures, and to Elders both past and present. © Commonwealth of Australia