Interview with Natalie Barr, Sunrise, Channel 7

Subjects: tax reform, cost of living, NDIS Natalie Barr: Opposition leader Angus Taylor has blasted Labor’s agreement with the Greens to pass major tax reforms as a dirty deal, accusing the Prime Minister of lying. Under the deal the government has bowed to the demands of the Greens to ban self‑managed super funds from borrowing to invest in property. In exchange, the government will delay its major cuts to the NDIS with reports this morning the Greens will demand more concessions.

Labor’s divisive tax‑reform bill is now likely to pass the Senate tomorrow. For more, let’s bring in Housing Minister Clare O’Neil and Opposition Senate Leader, Michaelia Cash. Morning to both of you.

Clare, the Prime Minister, is being accused of lying again because of previous pledges not to change the rules around self‑managed super funds. You’ve already got trust issues after the Budget. Are you worried this could make it worse?

Clare O’Neil: Yesterday, the Prime Minister announced that our government has a pathway through the parliament for what is the biggest reform to housing and taxation our country has seen for a generation. The bill that the parliament will now pass is going to give a tax cut to every single one of Australia’s 13 million workers. It’s going to create a fairer housing system, bringing 75,000 rental households into home ownership and it’s going to build a fairer tax system for the country.

You know, this Budget was a difficult one, but put in place some very necessary reforms for our nation. We see that Australians are working harder than ever, but they are struggling to get ahead and this Budget was all about them. This is good news for the country.

It means that we’re going to get a tax cut through for every single Australian. And for every single Australian taxpayer, they’re getting now $2,800 out of tax cuts from our government. I think the question now is for Michaelia, for One Nation, for the other right‑wing parties, how are they going to handle this?

Is Michaelia really going to go into the Senate tomorrow and vote against a tax cut for every single worker who is watching right now? Just first of all on that, you’ve had there, you’ve had to water down the NDIS, haven’t you, to get this through? We know it’s going back for what, 8 weeks?

It’s been delayed. But how much of that will you water down to get this through? Because that’s your money.

Look, the NDIS reform that the government’s undertaking is incredibly important for the nation. This is a cherished national institution, but I think most Australians can see it’s not serving its original purpose and it is spending at a rate that is truly unsustainable for our country. So, we do need to address this system.

What the Greens have asked for is a longer inquiry. They want to give more voices into the debate. And we think that’s a fair exchange for a really important reform like what we’re doing with the NDIS.

But to get massive tax and housing reform to make our country fairer out of that. That is a very good arrangement for our government to make. But you’re not going to have 8 weeks of an inquiry and not change it, are you?

Are you ruling out not watering it down? Look, we have inquiries for a purpose, Nat, and that is to make sure that we’re getting the legislation right. This is a scheme that supports hundreds of thousands of very, very vulnerable Australians.

I think it’s legitimate to ask for a longer inquiry and to give more voices into that discussion. But I will just say the central point of that NDIS reform does not change. We need to reform this to make it sustainable for the country.

Labor created the NDIS. We will always protect and defend it. But right now that means making this scheme sustainable and it is clearly not today.

Okay, Michaelia, the Coalition is giving Labor a whack for doing a deal with the Greens. This time last week, though, the Coalition was ready to do a deal with the Greens to extend the NDIS inquiry as well. Is that hypocritical?

Michaelia Cash: Well, let’s be very clear. What is hypocritical is the government doing a dirty deal with the Australian Greens to ram their toxic tax changes through the Australian Senate tomorrow. Mr Albanese has a massive credibility problem.

Australians now know he lied to them. He lied to them, Nat, 50 times prior to the last election. There would be no changes to negative gearing.

There would be no changes to capital gains tax. Well, guess what? Australians, you will have it confirmed tomorrow when it goes through the Senate.

The Prime Minister is a liar. But what’s worse, Nat, is he also said to the Australian people there will be no deals with the Australian Greens. Another lie.

The problem the Prime Minister now has is this. It doesn’t matter what he says between now and the next election, he can just change his position because he is prepared to lie. The Greens want a tax on the family home.

The Greens want death taxes. It does not matter now, Nat. The Prime Minister can say what he likes.

He has now been shown he will do anything and he will say anything to get a toxic agenda through the parliament. And guess what? We are going to fight for the Australian people every step of the way.

We are going to fight to ensure that Australian people who want to work hard and be aspirational, you have that chance. And yes, we will axe Labor’s toxic taxes. Why?

Because the Prime Minister, he has been proven to be incompetent, a liar and a fraud. Clare, is lying and losing your integrity just about the worst thing you can do? Oh look, I think we’ve heard, you know, the usual sort of anger and politics from what Michaelia has said there.

I don’t hear anything that gives the Australian people any answers to the problems that they’re confronting in their lives. Well, axe your toxic taxes, Clare. There is your answer.

And I say to the listeners at home, Labor sees you. We see the challenge that you’re confronting in your life right now. We see a housing market that’s broken for the country.

We see the fact that our economy is not growing enough, we see that your wages are not increasing fast enough. Our government is all about you and finding real ways to help you with the problems in your life. Michaelia can insult the Prime Minister all she likes.

It doesn’t make any of you at home better off than you are right now. Clare, it’s not an insult when you call out a lie, it is a fact. We’re focused on the Australian people.

And we’re focused on delivering tax cuts for every single Australian worker who is watching right now. Whatever Michaelia says, she’s going to go into the Senate tomorrow and vote against tax cuts for every Australian and she needs to be accountable for that. Yep.

Well, they’ve admitted that that’s what they’re going to do. You know, Nat. Yes, Sorry.

This is the problem, right? This is now the problem. This is what Labor does.

They have a toxic package and then they put in something and they say, ‘oh, and if the Liberals vote against it or the Nats vote against it’ well, guess what? We’re calling you out, Clare. We will support the tax cut absolutely and we will keep it.

But I tell you, we’re going to call out your lies and yes, we will go to the next election telling the people, as a mandate issue, we will axe Labor’s toxic taxes. And you’ll vote against the tax cuts though? Just clearing up on that.

Your Prime Minister lied to the Australian people 50 times, 50 times before the last election. We’re not going to play games in relation to toxic taxes. We support the tax cuts.

We will keep the tax cuts. But yes, what we will axe, Nat, we will axe the toxic taxes. And the bad news for the Australian people is this Labor have done, despite telling you that they would not, a dirty deal with the socialist Greens, and those toxic taxes will go through the parliament tomorrow.

So, say goodbye to aspiration and hard work in Australia because Albanese is about to kill it. But if it’s in one bill, you’ll vote against the tax cuts, Michaelia? We have made it clear we will support, we can vote for the tax cut, but we will oppose the tax increases.

The bill is going through, Nat, regardless. If we are elected, we will keep the tax cut and yes, we will axe Labor’s toxic taxes. Albanese lied 50 times and he has now been caught out.

Okay. Thank you very much. I think it’s clear.

We’ll see you next week.