Interview with Kieran Gilbert, Sky News Sunday Agenda

Before we get to your area of responsibility, let’s start on this issue of big tech - the Government’s doubling down in a big way, isn’t it? MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: It is, Kieran. It’s another big announcement from us today about taking action on the social media giants.

You know, we’re really pleased that Australia is leading the world already with our social media laws but we want them to work even better than they are. So far we’ve already been able to deactivate over five million accounts for younger people but we know that we need to take stronger action, and so that’s why today we’re announcing new laws that will double the penalties against the social media giants if they do the wrong thing, lifting them to $99 million and bringing them into line with a lot of other corporate fines but also giving the eSafety Commissioner more powers to do her investigations.

We were getting some feedback that she needed some more powers to compel the social media giants to produce information that she can then use to prosecute them and she will now have those powers as a result of these laws once we can pass them. KIERAN GILBERT: So is big tech basically just not cooperating, is that the problem? MURRAY WATT: Not as much as we’d like them to.

I mean, we’ve got active investigations underway into a number of the different platforms at the moment. But clearly- you know, these laws were brand new, never developed anywhere in the world and what we’ve learned is that the powers that the eSafety Commissioner has do need to be beefed up. Also to give her powers across things like age assurance tools so things that sit outside the social media platforms themselves, but compelling them to provide information so that she can do her job even better.

KIERAN GILBERT: So is the ban working? MURRAY WATT: I think it is. I mean, as I say, we've already deactivated over five million accounts, but we know that there are and we always said that some kids would find ways to get around these systems, just as there are some kids who drink underage as well.

But we want them to be as strong as we possibly can. As I say, we've got other countries now following our laws, and that's an endorsement that they are working, that they are taking action. And let's bring it back to the principle here, which is protecting our kids from some terrible material that's available online.

KIERAN GILBERT: In your area now, if we turn to the Environmental Protection Biodiversity Act, the Leader of the Nationals, Matt Canavan, was quoting an AgForce report this week that says the regulatory cost to Queensland agriculture alone will be more than $3 billion a year. What do you say to that? MURRAY WATT: Well, you'll be surprised to hear, Kieran, that Matt Canavan is exaggerating.

The figures that Matt Canavan has been putting out there assume that every single farmer in Queensland, or for that matter Australia, will need to refer any planned clearing that they have to the environmental regulator, which is simply not the case. What we did in passing those reforms at the end of last year was to remove an exemption that had previously applied to agriculture.

And basically what it's saying is that just like every other industry, if a farmer wants to clear land that has been uncleared for 15 years or more, they will need to get an assessment done by the Federal Government of the environmental impact if it's likely to have a significant environmental impact. So right now- KIERAN GILBERT: -so but what will- does that incorporate routine farming activities?

MURRAY WATT: KIERAN GILBERT: -like putting in fire breaks and things like that? MURRAY WATT: No. So basically the restriction is on what's known as clearing regrowth, so land that hasn't been cleared for more than 15 years.

If that clearing is likely to have a significant impact on the environment, then it would need to be assessed by the Federal Government and approved by the Federal Government. That's exactly the situation right now for someone who wants to clear land for housing or for a mine or for a wind farm. If they're going to have a significant impact on the environment by doing that, then that needs to be assessed.

And the reason we do that is it enables us to say, ‘well, hey, maybe you could do a bit less clearing here. Maybe you could look at doing it over here instead where there's going to be less environmental impact’. So this is not a blanket ban on agricultural land clearing, but what it is, is- KIERAN GILBERT: and it won't hamper routine daily farming activities?

MURRAY WATT: No, no, no. KIERAN GILBERT: Because Shane McCarthy from AgForce, he says the producers should be encouraged to actively manage weeds, invasive growth, fire risk, land condition. MURRAY WATT: KIERAN GILBERT: You would encourage them to do that?

MURRAY WATT: Well, all of those things would be taken into account in assessing what the farmer is proposing to do. If a farmer is proposing to clear weeds that is not going to have an environmental impact, then we won't be stopping them from doing that. But if a farmer wants to clear a large amount of land that might be koala habitat or have another threatened species there, then it would.

The other issue here - and the other reason for doing this - is that particularly in Queensland, we know that large-scale land clearing is having a damaging impact on the Great Barrier Reef. And yes, we've got to think about the impact on agriculture, but tourism in Queensland is a massive industry. There are 77,000 jobs connected to tourism on the Great Barrier Reef, produces $9 billion of economic development every year.

So we need to make sure that we're protecting that industry as well. And as I say, all we're asking farmers to do is comply with the same rules that every other industry has to comply with. KIERAN GILBERT: You've got the EPA being launched this coming Wednesday, July 1.

That'll obviously have oversight of this sort of stuff. Have you got an estimate of how much it will cost farmers? MURRAY WATT: We don't have a cost estimate for every individual farmer because every individual situation is going to be different.

But for many farmers, this is going to have absolutely no impact whatsoever, because the clearing that they would be proposing won't be having an impact on the Great Barrier Reef in terms of sediment runoff. And also it won't be impacting on koala habitat or other threatened species. It's only those types of clearing that we have an interest in.

We don't regulate every single thing when it comes to the environment. We regulate a certain number of things like threatened species, the Great Barrier Reef, and just like property developers or mining companies have to comply with the rules, now farmers will as well. KIERAN GILBERT: But it will add to their regulatory costs?

Some? MURRAY WATT: In some cases- in some cases it would. In some cases it would.

If that clearing is likely to have an impact on sediment runoff into the Great Barrier Reef or an impact on threatened species, then they would need to be assessed. And I acknowledge that there would be some cost in doing so. But again, I make the point that's no different to the cost that is incurred already by a range of other industries.

And also many farmers won't be impacted by this whatsoever. KIERAN GILBERT: They're talking - AgForce again - on that report they released that it would be up to $140,000 cost per referral. Is that about right?

MURRAY WATT: Well, again, it's going to depend on the individual situation. There may well be applications that do involve that amount of cost if we're talking about very large amounts of clearing that are going to have very large amounts of impact on the environment. But again, we do need to make sure that we manage the environment in a sustainable way for the long term health of the agriculture sector and also, as I say, for the tourism sector as well.

KIERAN GILBERT: And the EPA, I mean, it is coming into force on Wednesday. Why is it needed? Is it another level of bureaucracy?

MURRAY WATT: No, so this is one of the key elements of our environmental reforms that we passed last year, Kieran. You're right, from Wednesday this week, Australia will have its first ever National Environment Protection Agency. The point of doing that was to make sure that we have a strong independent regulator to make sure that those who are doing the wrong thing for our environment actually pay the price of that.

The reality is that we haven't had strong enough enforcement or compliance with our environmental laws over the years. It's one of the reasons why we see our environment go backwards. That's obviously bad for the environment, but it's bad for our health and it's bad for our economy, so that'll change that.

KIERAN GILBERT: Bird flu has been detected in wild seabirds. We know that over the last couple of weeks in WA and South Australia. Is the biggest concern to you, is it the impact on wildlife potentially or is it on poultry?

What particular area of concern is it for you mostly? MURRAY WATT: Yeah, so it's pleasing that at this point in time we only have four confirmed cases and they're all migratory birds that have flown in most likely from islands below south of Australia. So it's good that it hasn't spread more widely than that.

Look, I think if we were to see a mass outbreak, that would have very serious consequences for wildlife. That's obviously my focus being the Environment Minister. But Julie Collins, as the Agriculture Minister is leading our response here.

And of course, if we were to see an outbreak in our poultry industry, that would be very, very serious and damaging economically. There's no reports at all of any poultry in a commercial setting having bird flu, and we'd like to see it stay that way. KIERAN GILBERT: And you're putting severe restrictions around that industry now?

MURRAY WATT: So some commercial farmers have decided to upgrade even further their biosecurity standards. But one of the things that I can say to reassure people is that because we've had a couple of years to get ready for this compared to other countries, we've got very good preparedness plans place that are already rolling out. KIERAN GILBERT: On to general politics, will the Opposition and the political heat to the Government's tax changes, are you hoping it will die down now that it's passed the Parliament?

MURRAY WATT: I think it's likely that some of the pretty over the top media articles and complaints, with all due respect to our friends in the media, might subside a little bit now that the legislation has got through. Not every story that was being run in the media over the last few weeks has been accurate. And I think what we'll now see is people focus on the benefits of these reforms.

So as a result of these changes, the average Australian worker will be gaining $2800 a year in tax cuts. KIERAN GILBERT: Chris Minns was saying he hopes that it doesn't impact innovation. He doesn't sound convinced by your Labor counterparts.

MURRAY WATT: Yeah, we don't expect that it will. And as you'd be aware, the issues around start-ups, we are still in a consultation phase. We said when we brought down the Budget that we've been consulting that sector and that work is going on.

We want to see that sector thrive and create more jobs and more money for Australia rather than wind it back. But as I say, I think what we'll see now is people recognise that they will be getting significant tax cuts and that's in addition to the other things that are coming in on July 1; the increases to the minimum wage, the extensions of the paid parental leave, making our Urgent Care Clinics permanent.

These are the things that our Government is committed to doing to take that cost of living pressure off people. KIERAN GILBERT: And Murray Watt, finally, One Nation, it is continuing its surge. It's ahead in the opinion polls on a primary basis.

Does this worry you that some traditional Labor voters are being attracted to that party? MURRAY WATT: Yeah, look, we're certainly not taking anything for granted, Kieran, and we know that we need to earn the respect and the vote of every Australian, as many as we possibly can. I think the reality is that the overwhelming amount of One Nation support has come from the Coalition, which is just in free fall.

But we recognise that there are some traditional Labor voters who are thinking about voting One Nation. What we'll be doing up until the next election is demonstrating that we are delivering that cost of living relief and those wage rises. And One Nation want to work with the Liberals to make it easier for people to be sacked and to wind back healthcare, wind back wages, all of those kind of things that are helping people through.

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