Television interview - Sky News Newsday with Tom Connell

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Let's get to my first guest. Joining me is Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman. Thank you for your time.

Big focus from the Opposition on small businesses. So, the small business sector themselves say that about 400,000 are set up with trusts to – you know – reduce the amount of tax they pay. What's your message to them?

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: My message is to look at the full package of what we put in the Budget when it comes to small business. The loss carry-backs, helping small businesses with their cash flow. When it comes to what will kick in on 1 July this year: the $20,000 instant asset write-off.

That will help every small business. It will mean that they can write off the plant equipment they buy up to $20,000 per item, instantly in that financial year. That makes a huge difference.

Now, of course, when it comes to those changes, where there needs to be restructuring, because it's a smaller number of businesses amongst the larger full small business cohort in Australia. Where there needs to be restructuring, there'll be transitional support. And that's been really clear upfront.

We continue to consult with small businesses. And again, when it comes to those changes that we announced just over a week ago, when it comes to the small business – : You've got to say which ones. There’s been so many changes already. : There's not been that many, Tom.

And they've been pretty clear. Lifting the threshold for small businesses from $2 million to $10 million dollars of turnover when it comes to the capital gains tax concessions. That was a pretty clear singular change. : Startups, widows tax, so – on – : And actually, on this – you mentioned this – some in the Parliament, some in the Liberal Party, National Party, still fuelling this fear campaign around the widow's tax.

Some of those things were raised in the parliamentary committee report that looked into our Bill. So, they've been looked at for a period of time. They've been looked at in the context of earlier Senate inquiries.

Now, I think people recognise that we've always said when it comes to tax changes, you implement the substantive changes, and we've done that – : And you have subsequent pieces of legislation. Let's not reduce the work of the Parliament to pretend it's simplistic. It is complex. : No, but there've been more changes than normal on this.

So, let me ask you on this trust issue for small businesses. When you say working with – could there be a change within this area, or not? : What we see is that most small businesses don't use that structure. Okay.

If a small business wants to change its structure, then of course there'll be mechanisms that they can choose to do that. Either, existing mechanisms, some businesses change their structures from one period of time to another already. That already happens when it comes to – : But when it comes to the changed tax treatment of a small business with a trust paying a higher rate of tax, is that set in stone or are you saying – : How are they paying a higher rate of tax? : Well, they're paying a high rate of tax because there's a minimum tax on trusts now. : Yes, but small business pays 25 per cent.

Is it because they're distributing to family members or – : Well, that's how – that's where the rubber hits the road. Yeah. So, are you saying that's being worked on?

You're consulting on whether you'll go down that path? : We have said on detailed implementation - this has been upfront from the Budget and every day since - on detailed implementation we will continue to consult. That has been really clear because we've been, again, really open with the Australian people. There needs to be an additional – : I understand that on the widow’s tax, you go, yeah, okay that won't apply. : - additional pieces of implementation legislation.

And if small businesses choose to restructure, there'll be transitional arrangements as there have been in the past. : Okay. But in terms of the actual impact of it itself, that's up for – that's now on the table to be looked at? Is that what you're saying? : We want to make sure that small businesses – again, we're talking about most small businesses - : I understand that when you go, ‘oh, well, this one, gee, that does affect them quite a lot.

All right, well, here's the change’, you're looking at that – you're actually in discussions about – : We have been doing that all the way along. : Yeah. But you're not going to change every single element of it. So, I'm just asking if this particular one – : And again - important that your viewers know this - most small businesses will not experience when it comes to capital gains tax, they're already exempt because of the changes we announced more than a week ago, bringing that threshold up to $10 million. : Some used to be able to get two, but anyway.

Well, they could, I’m just saying. Some used to be able to get two lots of the 50% discount. So, those particular ones can no longer get two, they can get one.

The other aspect, of course, is on property. I want to bring up the auction clearance rate. This is comparing now to a year ago, often looked at in terms of the health of the property market, if you like.

So, New South Wales from 59% down to 38%. Queensland, 49% to 29%. Victoria, 67% to 47%.

WA, 50% down to 17%. Is that getting to a level where it's a bit alarming, or is that fine? Everything's fine? : You just mentioned Western Australia, where we obviously don't use auctions nearly as often as they used in other parts of the country. : Sure, others do, so. : Yes, but I looked at the Western Australian figures.

More than 400 houses in Western Australia sold over the weekend. Now we've got more stock on the market in Western Australia than we did a year ago. So, that's a good thing.

House prices in Western Australia are significantly up on where they were a year ago. So, what I'm seeing in my community is that there is a healthy real estate market that is operating in the normal way. When it comes too – : Is that the case in Victoria as well? : And what we're also seeing is that, week on week, you'll see different auction clearance rates.

That is a matter between buyers and sellers. A range of people have noted there's a lot happening in the global economy when it comes to impacts of inflation. Obviously if people are turning on Sky News every day and they're seeing some of the instability in the world – we know, we've been told by a range of economists that has an impact on consumer confidence.

That's not a surprise. We've seen – obviously our governments had to step in and provide tax relief when it comes to fuel, to help households with their bills. Now what I think is that ultimately the price of a house is between the seller and the buyer.

We want to make sure that's an even transaction. There's not an unfair advantage for buyers, if they're buying for investment, having an advantage over first home buyers – : Alright, I did want to get to one final topic which is why I'm jumping in there. IR.

So, there's this Building Cooperative Workplaces Bill. It allows the Federal Government to preference contractors who have done a deal of some sorts with unions, for example, EBA. What's the economic argument for that when it comes to taxpayer money? : The economic argument is that we know that enterprise bargaining agreements can help lift productivity, can deliver better value for money and better outcomes for workers.

And what that means is that when we are looking, as a government, to make sure that we're spending taxpayers' money responsibly, we want to make sure that we're getting the best value for money and getting projects delivered on time and on budget – : It'd give an advantage for a company that's got an EBA with the CFMEU. Does that make you uncomfortable at all?

That doesn't sound like best value for money to me. I mean, it's huge allegations of corruption. : Commonwealth procurement – it doesn't oblige the Commonwealth to do anything. : I know it doesn’t oblige – : It doesn't oblige a single thing. : But it allows the Commonwealth to say, you're a company that's got an EBA with the CFMEU. We are allowed to say you're ahead of this bid.

That's what it allows. : Well, it allows the Commonwealth to have more options about how we make sure we've got productive and cooperative workplaces, that's a good thing. : Well, specifically. It doesn't say productive. It specifically says if you've done – got an EBA or similar with a union – : Enterprise bargaining is a productivity measure.

Enterprise bargaining is a productivity measure. So, of course, that's what you're looking for. : Well, if it's a good one. If it's one the CFMEU's done to sort of do a kickback, which they've found in all sorts of circumstances. : I've got no time for that.

I've got no time – this government – : These companies aren't announcing we've done a kickback. This is happening anyway. This is the concern. : Yes, but the government I'm a part of, Tom, has taken the toughest possible measures when it comes to the CFMEU.

Some 120 people have been kicked out of that union because of the inappropriate conduct and the things that they have done. We've installed – or we've put legislation through the Parliament – we've installed an administrator to clean up not just the union, but the – : But it hasn't cleaned it up yet, has it? And there's contracts out there and the – are you saying there's no corruption left within the CFMEU? : Oh no, that's not what I said at all, Tom.

What I'm saying is that we are determined to clean up that union. We're determined to make sure that we took the strongest possible action, which meant we brought legislation into the Parliament, passed it through the Parliament, to make sure that we could install an administrator – : It’s not cleaned up yet, is it? : It is ongoing work and it is tough work. And I thank those who've stepped in to do it, including those who have important oversight responsibilities.

But we want to get that done. We want to make sure that people who work in construction, who deserve to have someone standing up for their safety, have someone who's standing up for their safety, but who also has integrity. We didn't have that under the previous CFMEU leadership.

Our government took action. Let's remember the government before us did nothing for a decade. Did nothing.

So – : It's not did nothing. They got – : Many of the problems. Many – : [INAUDIBLE] they weren't doing nothing.

They had a double dissolution trigger over construction corruption. : And we still had all of these problems that were left for our government to clean up when we came to office – : A lot to say on steroids since the Big Build in Victoria. We’ve gone over time. : Thanks for having me on.