TV interview with Minister Butler, Today Show - 13 July 2026

Media event date: 13 July 2026 Date published: 13 July 2026 Media type: General public CHARLES CROUCHER, HOST: Well, support for Pauline Hanson has fallen for the first time in four months, according to fresh polling from our colleagues at the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. Joining us to discuss the headlines today is Health Minister Mark Butler and Chief Political Correspondent for Nine Papers, Paul Sakkal in Canberra.

Minister, we'll start with you. Support for One Nation slipped three points, but there's a catch. It's gone to the Coalition, not for Labor.

Is this something that Angus Taylor can take? Is he back in the game? MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: I’m not sure Angus has really worked out how to manage One Nation.

Do they live with them? Do they live without them? Does he want to mimic them or does he want to contest them?

But, I mean, Paul's the commentator and a very good one at that. You know, politicians aren't much interested in polls. I think what this shows is that One Nation might feel like a useful outlet for grievance and frustration.

There's a lot of frustration out there in the community, given the wave after wave of pressure that households have been feeling over the last several years. But when you actually sit back and think about the so-called solutions they have for the country, I think more people are realising that it would actually make things worse, not better. All right, Paul, you've analysed One Nation's dip.

Is this the look-in audience now looking away, or is there a policy debate at play here? PAUL SAKKAL, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, NINE PAPERS: Politicians absolutely hate polls, for sure, Mark. They're definitely not deeply obsessed with them.

But, no, I think Mark's right on this first point, that the Coalition hasn't yet figured out how to fight One Nation, but there is a significant, outside-the-margin-of-error, drop-off for Hanson here for the first time in months, as you say, Charles. And almost for the sake of variety, this is a nice talking point because I can't remember how many times I've come in and sat here and explained the One Nation surge.

But over the past month, she's had a few head scratches, Pauline Hanson. She went to the Press Club, railed against workers' rights, talked about paid parental leave being potentially worth scrapping, talked about the monoculture and then headed off to London where she's been hanging out with types who have been deemed too extreme for many mainstream right-wingers.

So, for the first time in a long time, Australians have had a look at Pauline Hanson and part of that big base she's built up of about 30 per cent, many of them we know are not rusted on One Nation people and some of them on closer inspection have turned away. Let's move along because Shadow Defence Minister James Paterson today declared winning the AI race a national security imperative.

Mark, the PM has a major speech I think on Wednesday on this front. We know that we want to be at the forefront of AI for national security and for productivity, but also you want to protect jobs. You've spoken about the Australian way with AI.

What does that look like? Like every wave of technology, it means as a relatively small country at the end of the planet, are we harnessing all of the opportunities with every wave of technology? But are we also making sure that everyone gets the benefits, not just a few?

And with this technology, maybe more than most, I think people are also focused on managing the risks and the safety potential for this technology. And those three things, balancing them, bringing them all together and doing it in an Australian way, I think has been the focus of our government, and you’ll hear more about that from the Prime Minister. And I think we can be proud of what we do in this area.

I mean the last big wave of technology, that social media wave, is something where I think we've led the world in managing risks and particularly safety risks to young people. So we can do this, but this is a big wave of technology, perhaps bigger than any other we have seen. And so across defence in areas that I have responsibility for, like health.

Because there’s big benefits in health, right? Huge benefits. But also, real risks.

I think people are understandably very concerned about the risks to their health, to their health data. So, you know, stepping through that, the benefits, the opportunities, equity issues and managing risk, I think, is the focus of our government. Yeah, Paul, the Minister mentioned the idea of social media.

Pat Conroy says it's going to be similar to that. How does that all play out? Well, I remember a quite telling comment from the eSafety Commissioner about a month or two ago - this is Australia's internet safety watchdog - where she said trying to manage the waves of the ocean coming over onto the coast with a fence is kind of impossible.

These things are too big to control. And AI is a similar one. And I do wonder, as the minister speaks there, is what we're going to hear from the government this week more noise around safety and vague obligations around how AI firms should do their business in Australia, or will we actually see some tangible sets of rules?

And if we do see the latter, there is obviously the prospect that we don't see the level of AI investment that the business community and the tech sector would like to invest in Australia, which has downside risk in itself. I don't pretend that this is an easy trade-off. There are risks everywhere.

There are opportunities everywhere. But it's not an easy issue on which a smaller country like Australia can be a rule maker. In general, we're a rule taker on something as big as this, so we'll have to see what actually is announced.

Are we getting rails or rules on Wednesday? Well, I think as Paul said, there's a mix, there's a blend. This is a technology that's going to go through every part of our community and we need to make sure they’re across different areas - health is very different to defence for example - that our response is appropriate to those goals of maximising opportunities, sharing benefits and managing risk.

Really quickly, I know you're in town because of Richard Scolyer's memorial today at the Opera House. Your memories of him? Oh, brilliant, warm, generous.

I mean, globally significant, he was the world's leading melanoma pathologist. But today will be a solemn occasion, we lost him far too young, but also an opportunity to celebrate an amazing life and all of our thoughts will be with his wife Katie, their kids, his friends, family and very, very vast network of colleagues. A really important celebration.

Mark, Paul, thank you. The Hon Mark Butler MP About the department Accessibility We acknowledge the Traditional Owners and Custodians of Country throughout Australia, and their continuing connection to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to them and their cultures, and to Elders both past and present. © Commonwealth of Australia