Interview with Sally Sara - ABC Radio National breakfast

SALLY SARA, HOST: Well, artificial intelligence is expected to feature in debate ahead of the Labor Party National Conference this week, including a focus on whether the technology could cost jobs. The Federal Government has published a list of five AI priorities ahead of the conference, including a commitment to pursue AI safety in the workplace. Amanda Rishworth is the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations and joins me now.

Minister, welcome back to AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: Great to be with you, Sally. SALLY SARA: A draft of Labor's national policy platform calls for workers to be, quote: meaningfully consulted if the use of artificial intelligence will affect their jobs. What would that mean in practice?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: I've been doing a lot of work with both unions and employers to talk about what actually is best when we adopt AI in the workplace. And what's become really clear is if that's going to be successful, if adopting AI in the workplace is going to be successful and productive, then there needs to be trust. There needs to be trust about how it's going to be used, what it means for people's jobs.

But importantly, Jobs and Skills Australia has shown that actually, what you really need is to have the skill to be able to adopt it. So investing in the workforce is really critical. So that is the basis for, I think, good adoption of AI.

And it's important that we recognise that and encourage both businesses and workers to engage in that process. SALLY SARA: Is the government willing to make any concrete guarantees to workers that they will not lose their jobs to AI automation? Or is this something you believe that workers and employers should hash out through continued bargaining?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, firstly, I would say that the evidence has suggested in a number of places that AI is more likely to augment jobs. And so, making sure that workers have the skills to utilise that is critical. And business has a responsibility to invest in their staff so they can get the benefits.

When it comes to job losses, we recently released a report showing that at the moment, AI is not having the type of impact people feared on jobs. In fact, there are still healthy graduate jobs or graduates being employed, which is a really good sign. We've made a commitment to have a framework to monitor this.

But ultimately, what we want to see is the benefits flow to productivity. And that involves ensuring that people are trained, that they are able to harness AI, because the evidence suggests that AI is more likely to augment someone’s job rather than replace it. SALLY SARA: So are fears of job losses due to AI, are they overblown in your view?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Look, obviously I can't predict the future. The research that we have put out, which was very thorough across the board, does show that we still have a very strong jobs market. It did show a slight softening when it came to the highest AI-exposed sectors, but there was still jobs growth in those areas.

And indeed, something like a computer programmer, we’ve seen since the introduction of ChatGPT actually an increase in those jobs. So we've got to monitor it. We cannot be complacent.

But it is really important, though, I think, in this conversation, making sure that workers feel confident about adopting it. And we know that if workers are not trained and it is not used in a workplace in a way that's been thoughtful, then you actually get less productivity, not more productivity. SALLY SARA: You're listening to Radio National .

My guest is the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Amanda Rishworth. The Israeli embassy in Australia says the Draft National Platform for Labor risks, quote: placing responsibility for the conflict on one party while giving insufficient attention to the decisions, conduct and continuing obligations of the Palestinian leadership and terrorist organisations.

Have you seen the draft text that's being referred to there, and do you support it? AMANDA RISHWORTH: The platform will be debated and is a matter for national conference. But if I look at what the government's position has been, we have unequivocally condemned Hamas, including for the atrocities of 7 October and its ongoing acts of terror.

We couldn't have been clearer. We’ve also very clearly said that both Israelis and Palestinians deserve to live their lives free from terror and violence. So I think in terms of the government's position, we couldn't have been clearer, but we want to see a two-state solution in which Israelis and Palestinians can live in secure borders.

And I think our Prime Minister and our government have been pretty clear about that. SALLY SARA: The draft platform refers to Israeli settler activity, aid in Gaza, the work of international courts and Israeli death penalty legislation. It does condemn Hamas but does not call for the group's disarmament.

Does that get the balance right in your view? AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, I can comment on the Australian Government's position, and the Australian Government has been pretty clear about taking actions that will lead us closer to peace, not further away, so we want to see actions and commitments that lead us closer to peace. And that's what we're focused on, because as I said, we have been very clear that we want to see a two-state solution.

In terms of the conference debate, that will be a matter for conference. But I think as a government, we've been very clear about our position here. SALLY SARA: Do you think it's appropriate for the Israeli embassy to comment on a draft copy of a party document?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Oh, look, that is entirely a matter for the Australian embassy. Rather, the Israeli embassy. That's entirely a matter for the Israeli embassy about what they will and won't comment on.

I can tell you that the national conference process is a very dynamic and exciting conference, and our focus will be really on those key issues and putting a position and a platform that puts the Labor Party in a very good position. SALLY SARA: There have been reports that the Labor Right, which you belong to, would like to build out language condemning anti-Semitism.

Would you support that? AMANDA RISHWORTH: I think as a government, we've been very clear that we do not accept anti-Semitism. We established a Royal Commission on anti-Semitism and Social Cohesion.

And we've seen that play out, and it is enabling Jewish voices to be heard and their experience. So I have to say there is no place in Australia for anti-Semitism, racism, hatred or discrimination. We've been once again very clear on that.

As I said, in terms of the conference proceedings, that will be a matter for players in the conference. But I very much do support the Australian Government's strong stance against anti-Semitism. SALLY SARA: Amanda Rishworth, we'll need to leave it there.

Thank you for your time. AMANDA RISHWORTH: