Podcast interview - The Guardian Australia

Subjects: Garma, Future of Nhulunbuy, Indigenous Affairs, NT Remote Housing, Remote Jobs, Closing the Gap DOUGLAS SMITH, JOURNALIST: What is the federal government coming here with this year, either an announcement or something that you’re talking about this year, that you’re putting in place for Aboriginal people? MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Well, first and foremost, Garma has always been for me about being with the Elders and the Yolngu Elders.

Listening to them but also trying to understand if I'm on the right track with where I need to be going and taking that back with me to the Cabinet table. Listening to our Elders is really important, not just here in North East Arnhem Land, but wherever I go across the country. JOURNALIST: What is some of that feedback you're getting this year?

Are you getting something positive or negative? : I think the strongest feedback is really around the concerns for the future of Nhulunbuy, in terms of the Gumatj and Rirratjingu people. What will happen when Rio Tinto leaves this area? That's perhaps first and foremost in the minds of many families in North East Arnhem Land.

And following that, of course, there are First Nations people here from all over the country, wanting to talk about either their small business or wanting to get into business, in terms of the economy. There are those who are talking more about Homelands and housing. So, there are really important issues there.

But mostly, I get the sense for this particular Garma, it's really about solidarity, people coming together in strength and supporting one another. JOURNALIST: Also, with the Rio Tinto mine, the NT Chief Minister yesterday said that that would be returned, that the lands here would stay in the hands of Traditional Owners. Is that something the Federal Government will be working with the NT Government to achieve? : I know it's been a journey and continues to be for the Rirratjingu, the Traditional Owners for the Nhulunbuy area, and also for the Gumatj clan, as well.

What does the future look like? There are many other clans as well in this region, that respectfully have to be consulted, and I know that that is ongoing too. So, that's really important that they feel strong about what the future could look like, in terms of leasing here, and it is important that the Northern Territory Government is at the table with them but also listening to them.

JOURNALIST: I wanted to talk a bit about the momentum for Indigenous affairs and issues in Australia. In terms of the broader support from the Australian public, and we see the rise of One Nation, and I guess their policies for Aboriginal and First Nations people in Australia. Is the reconciliation and momentum for Indigenous Australians issues is that sort of sort of fading in the past few years, do you think? : Look, I travel right across the country to communities, remote and urban and regional, and I have to say, Doug, I have never felt such strength since the referendum.

It's really quite powerful. People are feeling strong again. People are feeling ready to really embrace whatever the future holds.

It has been a really tough road this past three years, from an emotional perspective, working with our mob. Trying to lift our people. Calling on them to stay strong and resilient.

That deep disappointment did stay with people for a long time. Thankfully now, I can certainly feel there's real change. And that real change comes from the realisation there is real danger.

And that real danger is coming from the far right. And as a result, we have to now link arms and connect very strongly. And we have to be united as a mob of people across this country, not just First Nations.

But people who want to see decency in this country, we all need to stay strong together. JOURNALIST: I did want to jump into the housing with you. The $4 billion package for remote housing that's in collaboration with the NT Government.

Is there a bit of tension there between Federal Government and NT Government? And are they asking for a significant more amount of money out of that? : The Northern Territory Government is asking for the ability to pay for administration and to be able to have the lands ready, in terms of head works on the lands. That has not been in the agreement and I've made that very clear.

But what I've also done is establish this agreement through having the Aboriginal community sector involved, and we need to hear from them as to what they think. So, I don't think it's a massive impasse, but it is a bit of a block at the moment. JOURNALIST: I guess with that collaboration, with that relationship, with the NT Government and Aboriginal communities and Aboriginal corporations.

They're starting to turn away a little bit, given the child protection and new laws that have just come in. How do you see them working with the NT Government in the future? : The Aboriginal community sector here in the Northern Territory is at the table on housing. We have the four land councils and Aboriginal Housing NT, with the Commonwealth and the Northern Territory.

So, we are all together as a joint steering committee on housing, and I appreciate that. We also have a minister in Steve Edgington, who is someone I can work with, who I know the Aboriginal organisations can work with as well. And I do believe we will be able to get to the other side of some of these issues around housing.

In terms of the other issues in the Northern Territory Government, with child legislation for example, that has caused real concern. And so have the issues around justice, with the high rates of incarceration and laws that have seen more young people jailed. This is creating real tension. : So, you're here today, talking about remote jobs and economic development.

Can you tell me how that's been going? And where do you see that going in the future? : Well, I can say that of the 3,000 jobs that we were rolling out, we have now reached our 3,000th job, in terms of the remote jobs program, and I'm very pleased with that. We have another 3,000 now that we can embark on, in terms of rolling that out, so we can have at least 6,000 jobs in the next couple of years.

That's important. What I've seen as I've travelled around remote Australia is that the respect and dignity in jobs by having good pay, superannuation, long service leave, sick leave, everything that makes a person feel good about going to that workplace is actually working, and I'm really encouraged by that. : And look, I just have these three questions, which I'm going to ask pretty much everyone that I speak with, and this really is in relation to, I guess, the momentum for Indigenous affairs, and the hope for the future.

What's one thing you wish people would learn from your culture? : That's a beautiful question. We're not going away. We're here, we're proud, we're strong.

And we are willing to share about who we are with all people. : What keeps you up at night? What's something that really concerns you or something that keeps you up night in terms of what we're talking about. : In terms of First Nations issues. : In terms of First Nations issues, and I guess the support for Indigenous affairs, or Indigenous affairs in general in Australia.

What concerns you most? : I'm not sure if it keeps me up at night. It's things I ponder on and reflect on. How well are we moving?

How quickly are we moving? And is there anything we're missing? And these are really important questions I ask myself. : What obstacles stand in the way of the future for Indigenous issues, affairs, like you were just mentioning, are we progressing fast enough, but what are some of the obstacles that’s in the way of us getting there?

Well, the Aboriginal people getting there, in terms of Indigenous affairs? : Sometimes I think, if I'm really reflecting on, say my own communities, sometimes I think we allow our own problems to really hold us down and hold us back. And I think, if we can look beyond that, and see that there are others who are perhaps in a similar situation. One example is, we've got the Pacific visitors here from Vanuatu and Fiji, and many places who have extreme poverty and disadvantage.

I'd like to think that we could actually have a stronger reciprocation and sharing of knowledge, but also of strength and resilience. They do look to our country, Australia, and see many good things that are going on here, especially with First Nations people. And I think that sharing of information and knowledge would empower and assist one another and assist our countries.

I suppose on the one area that I do think about a lot, is really the jailing rates of our people and the constant recidivism that we see when people come out. How do we heal that person and that community? And they are forever questions. : What do you want for the future?

If you could see the future that you would want for your kids? What would it be? : I would want to not see our kids worry about Closing the Gap. I don't want that to be their problem.

Because we will have closed it. : Thank you. Subscribe and stay up to date Connect with us PM&C acknowledges the traditional owners and custodians of country throughout Australia and acknowledges their continuing connection to land, water and community. We pay our respects to the people, the cultures and the elders past, present and emerging.