Interview with Tom Connell, News 24 Afternoon Agenda

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Well, water ministers have just met to discuss new rules for data centres. The focus this time is their water use, the Federal Government trying to get agreement to minimise water use and focus on things such as using non-drinking and recycled water. But just like with the energy rules, Queensland is a holdout state.

I spoke to Environment and Water Minister Murray Watt a short time ago, started by asking him about the proposed standards. MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: We support data centre investment and we recognise the benefits it can bring to Australia, but we do need to manage the risks that come with data centres, including the risk that they might use water that is needed by households, by farmers, by other industry.

So what we're looking to do is set national standards with states and territories that do minimise water use by those data centres. We recognise that data centres will need some use of water, particularly for cooling systems, but there are technologies available that reduce that water use. They can be prioritising recycled water, they can be prioritising other forms of water that don't impinge on drinking water.

So we recognise that there is some level of water use that is going to be needed, but we want to drive that as low as possible. TOM CONNELL: Okay. Does a national standard mean, though, there's a set limit data size per water?

What is it going to look like? MURRAY WATT: Yeah, we aren't getting to that level of prescribing - TOM CONNELL: But you will have one? MURRAY WATT: No.

So it's important to remember here that water management, particularly urban water is managed by states and territories, and that's why we need to have agreement with states and territories and ourselves. It will ultimately be for states and territories to determine what those kind of limits are. But what we're trying to say across the whole country is what is the floor that we want to impose?

What are the minimum standards that we want to impose, like prioritising other types of water like recycled, like making sure that data centres pay their fair share towards infrastructure. TOM CONNELL: So it sounds like principles more than specific caps and different to your energy- not you, but the government's approach on energy. It's a bit looser.

MURRAY WATT: Well, we need to recognise, as I say, that states and territories manage our water systems. So, ultimately, these are decisions for them about those kinds of limits. It is a bit different to the energy system, where there is more national regulation.

However, what we've made clear today is that we do, the majority of states and territories, agree. TOM CONNELL: Majority. Who disagreed?

MURRAY WATT: So Queensland has said that they will not support national standards, which I think is a mistake for Queenslanders and also for the country as a whole. TOM CONNELL: They’ll have- what did they say, what, they’ll have their own standards? They don't want to be bound by what you're saying?

MURRAY WATT: Essentially, that's what they're saying. But the problem with that approach is, first of all, it is a big risk to Queenslanders because it doesn't give any guarantees to Queenslanders that data centres won't be able to use large amounts of water that households need, that farmers need, that industry needs. It doesn't guarantee that the water prices of Queenslanders pay don't go up because of data centre demand.

And for the country as a whole, it's a problem as well because if we don’t have all states and territories applying the same standards, the same expectations, it opens the door to there being a race to the bottom where particular states allow anything to happen and risk data centres going there and depriving water. TOM CONNELL: NT is on board? MURRAY WATT: So NT is sort of in the middle at this point in time.

TOM CONNELL: Well, you either agree or don't. MURRAY WATT: Well, they weren't in a position to agree today. They're still having some cabinet discussions in the Northern Territory and I respect that.

But I’ve spoken- TOM CONNELL: So the NT is to be determined. Queensland's a no, and the rest are yes. MURRAY WATT: Yeah, so the rest are yes.

To be clear about the Northern Territory's position, and I had another constructive conversation with their minister this afternoon, he has indicated they are broadly supportive of where we're looking to get to, but he needs to have some further discussions with his colleagues. TOM CONNELL: Okay. Reports today the Government could ramp up targeting of visa overstays.

It sounds a lot like a One Nation policy to me. MURRAY WATT: I don't think you could say it's exactly what One Nation is looking at doing and certainly isn't being put forward in the divisive way that we see One Nation approach these migration issues. One of the things that our government wants to do is actually build social harmony and social cohesion and not turn different groups against each other.

But we do recognise that despite the work that we've done to bring migration numbers down since coming to office, more needs to be done. We have that net overseas migration target, and while we've reduced net overseas migration by 45 per cent, we still have more work to do to reach that target, and that's why we've got to consider new options. TOM CONNELL: So you'll boot out overstayers, so would One Nation, and you'll do it nicely.

MURRAY WATT: Well, we haven't confirmed exactly what we're going to be proposing. That work is still underway. TOM CONNELL: Given the way the NOM works, though, that's clearly part of it, isn't it?

The only way you can manage it is by trying to balance things out, and overstayers- Martin Parkinson said this in his report that hasn't really been acted on. Overstayers, the sort of permanent, temporary people need to be focused on more? MURRAY WATT: Well, I guess the Government's approach is to tackle this both from arrivals and those who leave the country as well.

And we have taken action, of course, particularly in relation to international students to reduce the number of people coming to Australia, and it may be that a little bit more needs to be done on that front as well. But equally, we acknowledge that the system as it stands, the system that we inherited from the former Coalition government, does allow people to use a range of mechanisms to stay in the country longer than they should be.

So we've got to approach it from both ends. TOM CONNELL: I'm going to turn the tables on you. We have politicians complaining about journalists wanting a rule-in, rule-out game.

I don't want you to rule this in or rule it out. The Productivity Commission report on the GST, will you look at it with an open mind about what it says to do with the 2018 deal, which gives a lot more money to WA courtesy of the Commonwealth coffers? MURRAY WATT: We'll certainly look at it with an open mind, and I'm sure the Treasurer will have more to say about that today once he gets through the meeting with treasurers that he's engaged in.

What we have said is that WA will get its fair share of the GST. That's the broad principle. We will consider the recommendations of the - TOM CONNELL: But fair share is subjective, isn't it?

MURRAY WATT: It is, but we have said that they will get their fair share. We're not at a point where we're saying exactly what we're going to do with the Productivity Commission's recommendations. It may well be that the Treasurer has more to say about that today.

TOM CONNELL: But are you saying they won't get a reduced amount? You are ruling that out? MURRAY WATT: Well, I'll leave it to the Treasurer to confirm exactly where we're at following that discussion with treasurers.

TOM CONNELL: There was this line in the report, so it pointed out, with the current arrangement where WA gets on a par with the stronger of New South Wales or Victoria, New South Wales can have a natural emergence - a national disaster, I should say, huge flood and get more money, and so would WA for a flood that never happened to it. That doesn't make sense, does it?

MURRAY WATT: Well, the way I guess the system works is that it does take into account all revenue, all expenditure from different states and territories. You put forward that example. There are probably other examples you could put forward - TOM CONNELL: But that’s- isn't that example bizarre?

MURRAY WATT: But you could probably put forward examples around where another state gets money in certain circumstances, whereas a different state doesn't. So, it is a complicated system. We acknowledge that.

We are trying to simplify it. TOM CONNELL: PC says too complicated. It's not delivering what it should have.

And the Commonwealth budget is getting smashed by the wealthiest state in the country. MURRAY WATT: They do, they do say that. So that's why we've said we will consider their recommendations.

And as I say, I'm sure the Treasurer will have more to say once he finishes that meeting with treasurers today. TOM CONNELL: All right. There you go.

I'm trying to not get things ruled in or ruled out. The Bush Deep podcast, let me ask you this. So the host, not the Prime Minister, made a joke about Pamela Anderson when talking about the Japanese Prime Minister getting in two melons.

Was that an opportunity for the PM to say, hang on, let's not go there and disrespect a woman like that? MURRAY WATT: Look, Tom, the amount of column inches and airtime that this story has taken up this week, I think, is out of proportion, considering the range of issues that the government and the country is dealing with. TOM CONNELL: And we've just covered a lot of them.

MURRAY WATT: TOM CONNELL: But that's the question around - I'm not saying the PM said that, but isn't that an opportunity - when you have a discussion with someone, a journalist, someone in the community, and they say something you don't agree with, isn't that the moment to speak up? MURRAY WATT: Well, I think the PM has made very clear that his participation and remarks in that interview have been misinterpreted.

I believe that. I believe that based on his past conduct. And certainly, particularly when it comes to the treatment of women, he, more than any other Prime Minister, has delivered massive reforms that improve the position of women.

TOM CONNELL: You can make it really clear, though. When someone says that you go, I don't agree with that, then there's no way to misinterpret it. MURRAY WATT: Well, as I say, the Prime Minister's made clear his remarks and participation have been misinterpreted, and I believe him.

TOM CONNELL: Minister, appreciate your time today. Thank you. MURRAY WATT: Thanks, Tom.

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