TV interview with Minister Butler, Today Show – 21 August 2026

Media event date: 21 August 2026 Date published: 21 August 2026 Media type: General public NATALIE BARR, HOST: Australia ticked over $1 trillion in debt this week, with taxpayers now spending more to pay off the interest than we do for the army, childcare or unemployment benefits. Our interest bill is approaching $30 billion a year, making it one of the biggest expenses in the Federal Budget.

But compared to other countries such as Germany, the US, the UK, and Japan, Australia's debt remains relatively low. Let’s bring in Health Minister Mark Butler and Deputy Opposition Leader Jane Hume. Good morning.

Mark, Jim Chalmers has lauded our AAA credit rating and we know debt has climbed under both Coalition and Labor governments. Surely, $1 trillion is a milestone you don't want to make, though? MARK BUTLER, MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING, MINISTER FOR DISABILITY AND THE NDIS: Good morning, Nat.

Can I say, first of all, that conversation between Shervo and Richo was really powerful and really important. But this is a big headline number, there's no question about it. We also need to put it in international context.

As that graph just showed, our debt is much lower than other countries we compare ourselves to. But there's a constant task of governments to manage that debt, get it down as much as possible, try and find ways to deliver savings in budget so we can have things like the back-to-back surpluses we delivered early in our term. We've got debt down by almost $200 billion against the projections that we inherited back in '22.

But there's more for us to do. We delivered $60 billion of savings in this year's budget, more than three quarters of that came from my portfolio. We're all doing what we can, but we want to make sure we have the best budget possible to set up the future of Australia in the best possible way. : Yeah, Jane, when you look at it over the last, what, 20 years, we've had the GFC, we've had COVID, we've had a lot of boomers retiring, we've had the NDIS like Mark said.

So it's been over a long time and it's been climbing. What is your solution? What would you be doing?

SENATOR JANE HUME: Well, the most important thing is that we make sure the next generation doesn't have to pay for the profligacy of this generation. I mean, let's face it, at the moment, it would cost you around $20,000 of paying down a debt every single hour, and it would still take 100 years to pay down Labor's debt today. Now, the Labor Government has received $400 billion in windfall revenue gains just in the last four years, and it's all been spent.

It's gone. Not only that, but their budget says that they are expecting deficits in every year for the next decade. Now, people at home know that if you've racked up a debt, you don't keep spending on your credit card.

But that's exactly what Labor are doing. Now, only the Coalition has a plan, a genuine plan, to pay down debt, a future generations fund that will allow Australians to use our sovereign wealth from resources to make sure that we're paying down the debt for the next generation. That is the only solution.

But Labor doesn't have a plan to pay down debt. They only have a plan for more deficits and more debts. And that's going to cost the next generation, your kids and their kids. : Mark, your government has been criticised for your amount of spending.

Are you comfortable that you can start bringing this down? : We haven't got a plan to pay down debt - : No, you haven’t. : We've been paying down debt. We've been doing it, $200 billion - : It’s a trillion dollars, Mark. : It would have been a trillion dollars three years ago if we'd simply followed the course that the former government was following. The projection - : Oh, you're using COVID numbers and you're still spending like it's the pandemic. : I’ll let you speak, Jane.

I’ll let you speak. : Hang on, Jane. Yes? : It would have been $1.2 trillion if we'd done nothing over the last four or five budgets. We delivered back-to-back surpluses.

Those upward revisions to our revenue that Jane rightly talked about, we've banked more of that than any government before us, more than the Howard Government - : You spent it. : Certainly more than the Coalition government. So, yes, we've got to do more. These are tough economic times for governments, for businesses, and certainly for households.

And I think all of us are trying to deliver the best possible budgets. : Okay. Moving on. The Prime Minister has admitted his now infamous appearance on a podcast with Nikki Osborne was an error after controversies with a marry-date-shag game and a gesture about melons.

Here's what he said: PRIME MINISTER ANTHONY ALBANESE: If I had my time again, which you don't, then I wouldn't have done that podcast. We have a view which is trying to talk to as many people as possible, but clearly that was an error. [End of excerpt] : Mark, should it have taken more than six weeks to have this admission come out of the PM? : Remember when this podcast first came out, Nat, the Prime Minister gave, I think the words were, a clear and unequivocal apology, literally within hours of it coming out.

I think what he did last night was remind people of that, and I think people want their Prime Minister or their premiers, their leaders, their business leaders to fess up when they think they got something wrong and to indicate - : Mark, I don't know whether he did. The first apology, wasn't that for the shag-marry-date Kylie Minogue comments? : Yes, after the podcast was first released. : But that wasn't for the melon comments. : He gave a clear and unequivocal apology when the podcast came out and there was coverage of the podcast.

I think last night - : But did he apologise for the melon comments originally? : I think last night what he did was indicate that although he has tried to use all the forms of communication to speak to as many people as possible, he recognises he got that one wrong. And I think that's what Australians want from their leaders, whether they're political, business, football leaders, when they get things wrong, admit it.

And he did. : Are you happy with his response about the melons, Mark? : Yes, I am, Nat. Sorry, I didn't quite hear that question. : Yeah. Are you happy with the Prime Minister's response about the melons and the fact that it seems to have gone on for six weeks? : Of course, we don't like these things going on for that time while we've got some really big challenging issues before the Parliament, before the country.

But I think what the Prime Minister did last night was what we expect of a leader. If he thinks he got something - : Should he have done it earlier? : He's done it, Nat. He’s done it. : But should he have done it earlier? : We can all muse on those things.

I think he made an apology when the podcast first came out. Last night in the clearest possible terms, he said if he had his time again, he wouldn't do it. : Okay. Jane?

Final word. : Look, he's halfway there. He said he wouldn't do the podcast, but let's face it, he sounded like a grubby leery old man and he should apologise to the Japanese Prime Minister, the first female Japanese Prime Minister in history. He just needs to apologise to her.

Why is this so hard, Mark? Why can't he just apologise for offending her, even if he was misinterpreted? Just apologise.

It's not that hard. : Okay, we'll leave it there. Thank you. We'll see you next week.

The Hon Mark Butler MP About the department Accessibility We acknowledge the Traditional Owners and Custodians of Country throughout Australia, and their continuing connection to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to them and their cultures, and to Elders both past and present. © Commonwealth of Australia