Interview with Patricia Karvelas, ABC Afternoon Briefing

Website search Interviewer Patricia Karvelas Interview discusses Productivity Commission GST Report; Data Centres; Tomago Aluminium; NRFC Investment into Modular Apartment Builder Built Living; Victoria Police & CFMEU. PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST : For a view from the Government, I want to bring in the Industry and Science Minister, Tim Ayres. Welcome to the program.

SENATOR TIM AYRES, MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND INNOVATION AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE : G'day, Patricia. Really good to be on the show. : You join me from WA, but you are a NSW Senator and you know, in the Constitution it's [the Senate] meant to be the States’ House. You're meant to stand up for your state.

The Prime Minister says there'll be no change to WA share of the GST deal. Doesn't that sell out your state of NSW? : No, that's a position that's long been the position of the Albanese Government. I flew over with the PM yesterday - we've both got work to do here in Perth today and tomorrow.

It was his 45th trip as Prime Minister to Western Australia. Of course, he’s travelled here and worked with a series of Western Australian Governments and business here in Western Australia for many decades. He gets Western Australia and understands the contribution that it makes, understands its economic needs and has been very clear on this subject year after year after year.

So, it's not a surprise he's backed that in again today. : Okay. But Chris Minns says that it's an outrageous deal. It actually rips off NSW substantially.

You're prepared to just back it in? : Well, there's always going to be – It's one of the truisms about Australian politics –there’s always going to be differences amongst the Premiers about the way that Commonwealth revenue collected by the Commonwealth is distributed amongst the states and the conditions under which it's distributed. That's business as usual.

It's not a surprise that there is that conflict. I think Daniel Mookhey today said, you know, he understood that the Prime Minister had made that commitment. They reserve their right to continue making the argument.

I don't think what's happening today is any different to what's happened over the course of the last four years. : Let's move to your portfolio. Queensland is going to stand its ground on renewable energy standards for data centres at this week's National Cabinet. Are you confident there will be no issues with rolling over the states on this?

Do you have the constitutional power to force them? : Well, I want to be respectful of the National Cabinet process that allows Premiers and the Prime Minister to have that discussion. We have been very clear though that we cannot see a race to the bottom on artificial intelligence standards, particularly in relation to electricity and water, but also in making sure that digital infrastructure and data centre investments go to the right places under the right conditions.

And what we have announced that we will legislate is a practical way forward that reinforces the Albanese Government's objectives here in rebuilding a modern electricity system at the lowest possible cost that provides downward pressure on electricity prices for households and business. That's what this is all about. We're avoiding what's happened in some of the overseas jurisdictions where energy hungry data centres have effectively put a new competition for scarce resources into the market.

The Albanese Government is saying, if you want to build a large data centre, you are welcome, but you'll do it in Australia's interest. And that means additional investment in electricity generation consistent with our objectives for the national grid. : You want states to sign up voluntarily but aren't you making it clear that you don't think it's up to the states to decide? : Well, it's a shared approach with the rules – : But they disagree with your – : Well, there's a set of rules there.

And any uncertainty, Patricia, like we're not going backwards with Angus Taylor and Scott Morrison and all these people back to the period when Angus Taylor was the Energy Minister and nothing got built. We actually went backwards in electricity terms over the course of that decade. As the economy grew, electricity generation got smaller.

We became more dependent upon like, you know, I meet with the workers in these coal fired power stations. They are doing their best to keep these power stations going but they are increasingly unreliable and are the source of the big cost spikes in our energy market. Now we are rebuilding the electricity system and that involves providing investment certainty and making sure, it's not just data centres, big industrial electricity users like the Boyne Aluminium smelter in Central Queensland uses more than 10% of Queensland's electricity.

We did a joint arrangement with the Crisafulli Government to provide new generation, wind and solar backed by gas and storage, to provide the lowest possible source of power for that facility. The principle is the same when it comes to artificial intelligence data centres. We're going to make sure we deliver for Australia and deliver for a cheaper electricity network. : And if Queensland keeps stomping their feet and saying we're not going to do it this way, what options are available to you? : Well, it's a national electricity market and we need a consistent approach in the national interest to make sure that Australia captures the advantage. : But how do you force them?

Well, there are rules in place in relation to all of these questions. I don't want to pre-empt the discussion, and I understand that Premiers will make their arguments in the lead up to the National Cabinet, but we are absolutely focused on what is in the national interest here for lower cost electricity, for data centres to arrive here on Australia's terms and for these investments to support our objectives providing lower cost electricity for households but also for the big electricity-using industrial operations that we want to see reindustrialising our outer suburbs in our regions.

If you're fair dinkum about the future of Australian industry, the Albanese Government's AI standards plan and legislating standards delivering them through the states is the only way to go. : Let me ask this. Will data centre developers face mandatory testing and disclosure? : I think what you mean is in relation to the models they use and the safety aspect of all of those – : All of them, yep.

The mandatory disclosure of where are the energies coming from? All of it. : Oh, I see, in relation to electricity. Yes, of course, all those rules will be fleshed out as we approach an exposure draft and new legislation hitting the Parliament.

In terms of those broader safety issues, we've legislated, or delivered I should say Patricia, the $39 million AI Safety Institute, which is all about making sure that in terms of getting under the bonnet particularly of the big training models that we're providing safety and growing capability in Australian government to make sure we keep Australians safe. : On the Tomago deal, taxpayers are putting in I think it's a $2.5 billion dollar subsidy.

What message does this send other industries doing it tough? What is the benchmark for bailout? : Well, this is an investment in new electricity generation. Absolutely, this firm employs more than 1,100 people directly and more than 5,000 people who have jobs in the Hunter Valley just because of this firm.

When it was established in the 1980s, it was an achievement of the Wran Labor Government that used the construction of this facility to bring forward investment in the NSW electricity system. We are doing the same thing today. New electricity generation being brought forward that is putting downward pressure on prices and building the capability of our electricity system, delivering job security, hundreds of new apprenticeships, thousands of jobs, investment as far as the eye can see in Hunter industrial capability.

This is a good deal for the Hunter Valley, a good deal for NSW and a very good deal for Australia’s industrial capability. : So, when I go to the benchmark for success for bailout, because a lot of industries face trouble, do you think SunRice deserves a bailout as well? : Well, we're an unapologetically pro-manufacturing government. We have the biggest pro-manufacturing package of any government in Australian history.

That’s one of the reasons I’m here today. . So SunRice will, because David Farley yesterday said, just to be clear, he told David Speers that he talked to the PM and the PM said basically this package is coming. Is it? : Yeah, it will come.

The Minister for the Environment, Murray Watt, the Agriculture Minister, Julie Collins, myself, we've all been engaged with SunRice, not just for the last few months, but for many years. It is an important business in regional Australia and Murray Watt is leading those efforts. And we will deliver a plan for that business, working closely with them.

They employ many, many hundreds of people in the Riverina and during harvest time there are many seasonal workers who work in those businesses. So, it's a really important business for Australia, for Australian food security. I'm here in Western Australia a day early for Cabinet because we've just announced a $120 million investment from the National Reconstruction Fund in modular housing construction.

Not just an Australian first, but a world first for unit construction. You know, those big high-rise units will now be made in factories 50% faster. So, construction 50% faster, 20% cheaper.

Delivering 2,000 units every year out of this production facility. Because of our investment through the National Reconstruction Fund in Australian manufacturing, we are getting on with the job of reindustrialising our outer suburbs and our regions. : Just finally, Victoria Police have executed a warrant at the CFMEU Melbourne headquarters today as part of a current investigation into secret commissions.

They also executed warrants at five other addresses. How hard baked is this corruption scandal that we're seeing in relation to this industry and organised crime? : Well, this is why the Albanese Government put this union into administration. I urge industry – : And we’re only seeing arrests a couple of years later.

Shouldn't we be concerned? : Well, I am of course concerned. But that is why the Administrator is there, working in cooperation with the police and the other law enforcement agencies. And I say to everybody in the construction industry, it's in everybody's interest to clean that show up, to cooperate with the Administrator that the Government has appointed.

And what you saw today is the police doing their work. I don't want to offer a commentary on the specific events today, but we are absolutely committed to eliminating corruption and bad practices in the construction industry because it's in the interests of all Australians and having a safe and healthy construction industry that's a good place to work. : Thank you so much for joining us. : Thanks, Patricia.

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