Interview with Sally Sara, ABC Radio National Breakfast

Minister, welcome back. MINISTER FOR CLIMATE CHANGE AND ENERGY, CHRIS BOWEN: Good morning, Sally. Good to be with you.

Before we talk about the Pacific Islands Forum, I want to get your response to the news this morning from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade that two further Australians have been located safe in the Nepal flood disaster. What more can you tell us? MINISTER BOWEN: Well, of course, it's wonderful news.

Every person who's been rescued or found is a relief to their family and to the broader Australian community. But, of course, we still have 36 Australians who are missing and unaccounted for, which is just gut-wrenching for all Australians and for the Nepalese Australian community in particular, whom I'm spending time with later today. But all I can say is that we're continuing to send any support that the Nepalese government asks for.

It's an offer that Penny Wong made immediately. And as soon as we received the request, we have responded. And of course, that is the approach that our government will continue to take.

Let's return to the Pacific. Pacific leaders have issued a joint statement saying they didn't get enough notice of China's intercontinental ballistic missile test in July. Just to clarify, is the criticism around giving ample notice or the nature of the tests themselves?

MINISTER BOWEN: Look, I think it's both. I think that leaders in the Pacific were deeply concerned, one, that a missile test was done without permission of the countries whose airspace it travelled through, and two, that there was no notice of the said missile test. So I think it's both.

It is a concern about sovereignty and safety, and one that Australia fully backs. Was Australia seeking a stronger condemnation? MINISTER BOWEN: It's a pretty strong statement, Sally, and one that Australia played a role in crafting.

The Pacific nation of Nauru has refused to back the statement, and Kiribati wasn't at the retreat. Does this raise doubts over Pacific consensus on this matter? MINISTER BOWEN: Well, I think unanimity is not necessary to express very strong views on behalf of the vast majority of the Pacific island states, which was very clear.

And it’s perfectly reasonable for the vast majority of Pacific countries to express a view and for one or two to say that they have a different view. I think the view of the overwhelming bulk of the Pacific was made crystal clear. The Pacific Islands Forum was held without the attendance of a number of Pacific leaders.

What message does that send about PIF and how it operates? MINISTER BOWEN: Well, look, Sally, having been there, I would say it was a very successful PIF leaders’ summit. Three Australian cabinet ministers led by the Prime Minister in attendance, which shows that we took it very seriously.

The Palau President did an excellent job in hosting it. It had very good outcomes, including in my portfolio, where the leaders expressed the unanimous view that climate change is the biggest threat to security and livelihoods and wellbeing of all Pacific peoples. So all that, of course, is work that’s deeply important, including Australia's role in COP 31, which was discussed by the PIF leaders.

Now, obviously, there were some leaders who couldn't make it. There was one prime minister who arrived, but very understandable circumstances, had to turn around and go home immediately. But I would say- I just would say, Sally, the mood and the consensus and the engagement from Pacific countries was very strong and it was a very successful meeting.

The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, says that, quote: the entry fee for credibility at PIF and for bilateral engagement in the Pacific is taking climate change seriously. Vanuatu's Climate Change and Adaptation Energy Minister was asked at PIF earlier this week about whether Australia is taking enough action when it comes to fossil fuels. Let’s have a listen to what he had to say.

RALPH REGENVANU, VANUATU MINISTER FOR CLIMATE CHANGE ADAPTATION: Australia is not doing enough. Australia is a major producer of fossil fuel, as we all know. Fossil fuels are the primary driver of the climate crisis, as I said.

So the very least a country like Australia should be doing is stopping future expansion, and it’s not doing that. You need to stop expansion and you need to start transitioning away. [End of excerpt] Is it hard for Australia to advocate for action on climate change in the Pacific when Australia is approving new fossil fuel developments at home? MINISTER BOWEN: On the contrary, and the Prime Minister is 100 per cent right, of course.

Unless you're serious about climate change, you have zero credibility in the Pacific. And it is unthinkable and inconceivable that we would have had the success in four new agreements, including two alliance-level treaties, if we hadn't massively improved the country's climate change policies over the last five years, including chairing COP31 negotiations. Now, in relation to Ralph, a couple of points.

Firstly, Ralph has expressed those views for many, many years. Two, I don't think Ralph would mind me saying, I caught up with him over the PIF summit. He said to he's deeply admiring of our government's approach.

He deeply appreciates everything we're doing to decarbonise. And he said, you know, it's my role in the Pacific to always encourage you to do more, which I understand and respect. But I make the point, as I made the point to Ralph, and I make the point publicly, the way you transition away from fossil fuels is to build more renewables.

You can't have one without the other. That's what we're doing with- in a great intensity domestically. That's what we’re- that’s the international role we're encouraging as well.

You can't just say transition away from fossil fuels without building the alternative. And that's true domestically. It's true internationally.

And again, I don't think Ralph would mind me saying he understood that point. You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Chris Bowen.

Minister, at this stage, only five leaders from outside the Pacific have confirmed they will attend the Pre-COP meeting in the Pacific next month. How would you describe that expected turnout? MINISTER BOWEN: Well, let me make a couple of points first, Sally.

The Pre-COP is not normally a leaders-level event. As President Whipps said to me yesterday, if we have one leader at Pre-COP, that's one more than there’s ever been to a Pre-COP before. So he certainly expressed a view, as all the other Pacific leaders did to me, privately and publicly, that it's a very good thing that any leaders are coming to the Pre-COP, because that is the first time that that has happened.

And that's something that we wanted, something that we'd been talking to the Pacific about for a long time. And we … How many nations outside the Pacific are sending a delegation? MINISTER BOWEN: Well, there's 4000 people, and that’s 60 countries represented, so it's a very substantial conference.

So the answer to your question is more than 60 countries with 4000 people attending. It is not normally a leaders-level event. We have engineered a situation where we will take prominent leaders, including heads of development banks, which are so vital for the Pacific, to Tuvalu to highlight to the 120 international journalists coming, to the 4000 people coming, the importance of climate action for small island developing states and atolls in particular, like Tuvalu.

Again, all the Pacific leaders in the communique and privately expressed their great appreciation for all the work. The head of the Climate Change Department of Fiji said he was exceptionally satisfied with the seniority of the people coming. This is an important- this is Australia's very important diplomatic engagement for the rest of the year.

Pre-COP is important in building momentum to COP31. But, Sally, if I could just caution some of this emphasis on leaders, which I'm glad that there are leaders coming, and we'll obviously be clear exactly who's coming. It moves around a little bit, the invitation acceptance list, as people work out whether they can make it or not.

But this will be an important opportunity to highlight the importance of the Pacific agenda, which we've outlined. And I’ll… s it worth the money that the federal government’s spending on it? MINISTER BOWEN: Yeah, and- I mean, COP 31 is very expensive, with the vast majority of the money being spent by the Turkish government.

The Pre-COP? MINISTER BOWEN: Well, I'm just making the point that the Turkish government is financing COP31. Pre-COP is an opportunity to highlight the issues of concern in the Pacific, like access to finance, like oceans.

Diplomatic engagement does take resources. We've massively lifted our diplomatic engagement in the Pacific with climate at the forefront of it, and that's a good thing for our country. We believe in an Australia which is outward looking, which has a- playing a bigger role in the world as a middle power.

That's a good thing. It does take some resources. But the alternative is to be more inward looking, to not be as influential in the region, and to let other countries be more influential at our expense.

Chris Bowen, we'll need to leave it there. Thank you for your time this morning. MINISTER BOWEN: Lovely to chat, Sally.

Look forward to next time. Chris Bowen, Minister for Climate Change and Energy. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of country throughout Australia and recognise their continuing connection to land, waters and culture.

We pay our respects to their Elders past, present and emerging.