Television interview - News24 NewsDay
KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, thanks for your time. This Medicare hack, what's the latest advice that you've got for the Australian people as we go to air this Friday? And specifically in terms of the personal, the question over personal data, I know the investigations are ongoing.
Have you got any updated advice as to what you know? ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: The advice at this point in time is that there's no evidence that there's been any impact on personal details being revealed as a result of this. This was not a malicious act.
This was an act of an AI agent, essentially being told no for answers that it was seeking, which was general data on medical information and costs and financing, which, when told no, found a way to circumvent some of the barriers that were there on that site. And any of the other agencies? You mentioned there were three others.
Have they been breached? PRIME MINISTER: There has been contact with the other agencies. Those details are still being worked through.
But at this point it's important to say two things. One is that there's no evidence there's any harm being caused here, but that doesn't mean that it's not serious. Because it is an example of the implications that we have been warning of and indeed AI companies themselves have warned of that the potential for this new technology to go in directions without human direction, without human control, is what has occurred here.
And this looks like it's the first time that a government has been hit by an AI hack anywhere in the world. Or do you think that some governments are keeping it quiet that this has happened and they just haven't been upfront about it? PRIME MINISTER: I can't comment on things that haven't been made public.
What I can say though is that my Government was determined to act. To act as soon as possible to ascertain the facts were important, rather than go off half cocked. To ascertain the facts and then to be transparent and to tell the Australian public in a way that was timely, the facts that were known.
And also to reassure the Australian public that consistent with the way my Government operates, that we're responding in an orderly, calm manner. We establish processes with the inquiry that will be led by the Office of Artificial Intelligence in my Department, but working with the Australian Signals Directorate, working with all of the different bodies to have a proper investigation, with referring it to the Joint Parliamentary Committee that has been established as well, so they can give appropriate consideration to this.
One Nation and other critics are saying that you, well, they're sceptical of the timing. They're saying that you held onto this and you've dropped it now because it suits you. PRIME MINISTER: It's just nonsense.
We were informed of this late. That's one of the issues that I raised with Sam Altman when I spoke with him yesterday. I was informed while I've been in New York.
So, you released this at the first moment you could? PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely. This was a unique situation, Kieran, and the technical detail which was there.
Imagine if we had said there's been a data breach, but we don't know what has been sourced, we don't know if your personal information is out there. That would have created a great deal of anxiety, which was unnecessary. We had to ascertain the facts and then we made the statements as a matter of urgency.
We also provided briefings to the Opposition, as is appropriate. They say that you've been asleep at the wheel, Angus Taylor, that's his claim. And he says that you haven't focused enough on cyber defence and cyber security.
What do you say to that? PRIME MINISTER: I say that he needs to act more like a responsible leader of an alternative government if he's going to be taken seriously. This is a unique situation without precedence.
We have been saying, and I gave a major speech on artificial intelligence in July. I'm unaware of any speeches that Angus Taylor has made. He said that you didn't talk about cyber security and cyber defence in that.
Well, there's no focus on it. PRIME MINISTER: He hasn't talked about the issue at all, Kieran, at all. The alternative government.
What we did do in that speech was, of course, we spoke about defence and cyber security as one of the issues that we're concerned about. And we set up agencies, both within the Department, but also a separate agency looking at AI. And that is something that my Government has been forward leaning on.
Indeed, there is no government in the world that has been as forward leaning as Australia has been when it comes to new technology. Whether it be the social media ban that now has been followed by more than 20 countries and Europe is now acting as well. So, that number will go up substantially.
The work that we're doing to look at issues like Digital Duty of Care and the announcement that we've made about Australian Standards for AI. My government has proposed and has established the Joint Parliamentary Committee as well. He has a sensible representative in Jonno Duniam as the Deputy Chair of that Committee that will do serious work.
Now, the Trump Xi meeting, which is happening while we're in the US. Donald Trump, ahead of it, said a big day with President Xi. He believed that SI will be a big topic of discussion.
But he calls AI SI, as we know, but I want to leave it exactly where it is. That is China's position also. And our guardrail is the Department of Justice.
Does that worry you that he's not inclined to be open to any additional guardrails, as argued by you, by Andy Burnham, Macron, other, many other leaders. He's not buying into that at all. PRIME MINISTER: What we've seen with the statement that was released on Monday, signed by 22 different countries, but since then as well, other countries joining.
I was one of the three panellists with President Macron of France and Prime Minister Sanchez of Spain, talking about Protection of Children in the Age of AI at the United Nations this week. The whole world is looking at these issues and AI companies themselves are speaking about protocols, guardrails, what they need to do to make sure that this new technology, which does – Do you believe you can still have an impact outside of the G2, as they're known, Trump and Xi.
PRIME MINISTER: The United States and China are the two most powerful countries in the world. But it is up to Australia to not be defined by our relationships just with other countries. To speak up for Australia's national interests and to engage constructively.
We’ll continue to engage constructively with both the United States and China. But these companies as well are saying in order to have social licence, these companies need to get the support of the community. And if there are issues raised, whether it is issues such as energy usage, the location, all of those issues that I've spoken about since July, or issues of safety, then that will undermine confidence in this technology.
Now, artificial intelligence can transform and is transforming the way that we work, the way that society functions. We can't press the stop button on it because and think it will just go away and no one will ever use it ever again. So, therefore, how do we get involved?
How do we lean in to make sure it acts in the interests of people? We think that can happen because the advantages and the potential benefits for our way of life, for things such as medical breakthroughs, for issues of improving productivity and economic growth for business, are substantial. So, we want to shape it.
That's one of the reasons why we're leaning in on issues such as frontier AI as well. We want to be a part of the development because what that will do is enable us to have a say in how this is rolled out. On a separate but related matter, obviously, the Digital Duty of Care.
In your speech this week at the UN, you mentioned misinformation, disinformation and so on. Is that the next step for you in terms of this package of laws? That's what some of the critics are warning.
PRIME MINISTER: No, it’s not. Well, that's what people who don't understand the internet say. And you talk to any parent on the sideline of your kid's sport when you're back in Australia and they will tell you they're worried about what is out there in terms of information.
That's just a fact, polarisation. That has nothing to do with the legislation that we're putting forward. Will you move to, I get that you don't buy that critique, but will you move to change the legislation to placate people in the Parliament who have concerns about censorship?
PRIME MINISTER: We haven't introduced the legislation yet, Kieran. What we had was the Liberal Party showing that it wasn't serious by saying they were opposed to something before it was even introduced. What you do when you have an exposure draft is you have that so that people can have input.
What I'm very – You're not trying to shut down any free speech, stifle any political communication whatsoever at all? PRIME MINISTER: Not at all. This is the opposite of the Government having power.
This is about giving Australians power and empowering them for them to determine what they receive on their devices. Will you make, you know, changes to the exposure draft and when you have the legislation have necessary guardrails to protect free speech? PRIME MINISTER: Free speech is not attacked in any way or harmed in any way by this legislation.
But people are worried. PRIME MINISTER: Well, frankly, the Minister doesn't have any power because it's a disallowable instrument. So, if you wanted to remove that, I'm very relaxed about that.
As Anika Wells has said, the Minister herself. If people want to jump at shadows, the truth is that only the Parliament can have power because that's the way that whether it needs a new bill or it needs a vote on the disallowable instrument, the result is exactly the same. So, you'll do whatever you can to get that through.
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely. You see that the absolute, the aim is more important than the political fight there? PRIME MINISTER: Well, there's no political fight from us, what we want is for people to act responsibly.
We want to empower Australians, not empower governments and the people who, if they read the legislation, will know that that's the case. We're heading to the midterms in the United States. Donald Trump's under a lot of pressure from farm state Republicans, they want some movement on diesel.
It's really hurting a lot of farmers here. The reason I ask you is because he's considering a ban on diesel exports. We get a substantial amount of diesel from America.
If he put a ban in, say a 90 day ban which has been speculated upon, how damaging would that be to Australia and our oil, diesel supply? PRIME MINISTER: Trade is a good thing, that's our starting principle. And trade between the United States and Australia is a good thing.
That's why we have a free trade agreement. What happens with barriers impact the country and can hurt the country that's imposing them. But the United States' domestic policy is of course a matter for the United States.
But it would drive up our prices? PRIME MINISTER: What we have done very effectively, Kieran, you'll recall before Easter, the Opposition then, in its usual way, saying there would need to be restrictions on fuel at petrol stations. They were talking about odds and even days.
All of this. What we did was we acted responsibly, methodically, orderly, put together a plan which included the purchase of fuel overseas and – And a lot more here. A lot more from here.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, on the spot market. And what we have now is more fuel in Australia, more diesel, more petrol, more jet fuel than we had on February 28 when this conflict began. You might have to pivot again if he does introduce those, that ban on diesel exports.
PRIME MINISTER: We're not going to jump at hypotheticals, but what we have done is diversify the range of purchases that we have made. Purchases from places as wide as Nigeria and the Netherlands, as well as from our traditional partners as well. You'd recall Angus Taylor being critical of me going to Singapore, Brunei and Malaysia.
That helped to secure supply for Australia. But you accept if there was a ban here that would drive up the price at home? PRIME MINISTER: We accept that there are pressures on fuel across the board, but what we have done is diversify the arrangements that we've been able to put in place.
Argentina is another place. So, we're getting fuel from Asia, Africa, South America, North America and Europe. That is what we have put together as well as from our traditional suppliers.
You've been very generous with your time, so I'll wrap it up. Just one last one. We're at the Blackstone Investment Group and billions of dollars, trillions of dollars probably under management.
Angus Taylor says you're gallivanting in New York and you've got to stop that, get back and focus on what's impacting Australians. What do you say to that, given the context of where we are and Park Avenue, New York is this the focus where it should be for you? PRIME MINISTER: This is benefiting Australians.
It’s $80 billion of investment from Blackstone in Australia alone. One organisation where we are today. And I've just had a roundtable with a range of very serious companies from Canada and from the United States here at Blackstone.
Will they invest more off the back of that? PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely. They're very keen and getting those relationships, encouraging that investment we’re a good country to invest in and that's why they're keen to engage with me here.
Can you tell us any of those, the names of those? PRIME MINISTER: Well, this is commercial issues, but earlier this week as well, two days ago at a forum with over 100 people at Macquarie. Macquarie, a great Australian company, but with investors into Australia.
We know that Australia also has significant investments in the United States through our superannuation funds. And this is in Australia's interest. We live in a globalised world and what we've been able to do this week is engage with our partners, engage with everyone from President Trump through to leaders of other nations.
It's quite efficient to be able to talk to – I would have had informal discussions with well over 50 national leaders, partners that we work with, people who help to create jobs in Australia, people who buy our products, when it comes to our exports. All of those issues are very important. And it is in Australia's national interests that we be engaged with the world.
So, engaging with those leaders, but also of course, being able to present Australia's view for the world and our view of the way that it should operate has been important. I'll give a speech to the UN General Assembly in about seven hours' time. And that's important as well that we be represented.
We've always played a role in the United Nations and yesterday for example, the meeting and agreement that we have taken, the relationship with Ukraine, our support for Ukraine, up to another level has been important. But the engagement with the private sector, this city helps to run the global economy, there's no city that is more important than New York. And taking the opportunity to engage with investors is something that is a part of the job of anyone who is the Australian Prime Minister or anyone who wants to be taken seriously as the alternative Australian Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, thank you. Appreciate the time. PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Kieran.
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