Interview with Sally Sara, ABC Radio National Breakfast

Minister, welcome back to Breakfast. MINISTER FOR CLIMATE CHANGE AND ENERGY, CHRIS BOWEN: Nice to be with you, Sally. Good morning.

SALLY SARA: Have you had any last-minute confirmation of attendance from world leaders for the summit? MINISTER BOWEN: Yeah, and Sally, I think it's important to know that Pre-COP is normally a pretty pedestrian affair, to be frank with you. We've sought to elevate the importance of Pre-COP to really lift Pacific voices in the lead up to COP31 and to focus on the sorts of things that are at stake in our region, including going to Tuvalu, where the sea levels have risen already by around 15 centimetres over the last three decades.

And the capital, Funafuti, is likely to be submerged at a high tide by 2035 unless serious action is taken. So we have around 4000 people coming. We have an unprecedented series of events, 133 events scheduled for this three to four day period, which is much more than a normal Pre-COP.

We are taking 36 senior people to Tuvalu to really try and focus underlying issues that are being dealt with – 14 heads of government or state, heads of development banks like the Asian Development Bank, the Green Climate Fund, the UNFCCC executive secretary, current and former COP presidents, and really obviously we're taking a number of journalists to try and focus world media on some of these issues.

Now, world leaders do not normally attend Pre-COP at all. Prime ministers and presidents normally do not come to Pre-COP. We have some coming.

We also have a good range of ministers for climate change. And I just saw the European Commissioner say that there are more European ministers coming to Fiji than were at UNGA, United Nations General Assembly, last week. I think that's a good thing.

Climate ministers are the key negotiators for COP31. They’re the ones in the room negotiating the outcome, and we have good attendance. And we'll be elevating the issues that are so vital to the Pacific, like ocean sea level rise -- SALLY SARA: -- How much does all this cost the Australian taxpayer, this Pre-COP, if most leaders don't turn up?

MINISTER BOWEN: Well, as I said, Sally, leaders don't come to Pre-COP generally. We have some leaders coming. That's a good thing.

As the President of Palau said, if you have one prime minister coming, that's one prime minister more than other Pre-COPs. So let's just keep that in context. It's part of our broader deepening of engagement with the Pacific, which -- SALLY SARA: -- So what's the taxpayer funding for this event, Minister?

MINISTER BOWEN: Well, it's part of our broader budget efforts for lifting the climate issues in the Pacific, which, as the budget says, is $147 million. That's not the cost of Pre-COP. That’s the cost of the entire lifting -- SALLY SARA: -- What’s the cost of Pre-COP for Australian taxpayers?

MINISTER BOWEN: Well, it's part of our $147 million of deeper engagement with the Pacific, which is so important to our geopolitical interests. SALLY SARA: --- Just to return to the question, how much are taxpayers spending, Australian taxpayers, on this Pre-COP event? MINISTER BOWEN: Well, as I said, it's part of our $147 million investment in the Pacific.

SALLY SARA: I know it's part of that, but how much is it? MINISTER BOWEN: It’s a significant element of the $147 million that we’re spending to broaden- deepen our -- SALLY SARA: --- Is it 20 as reported, $20 million? Or is it more?

MINISTER BOWEN: That's in keeping with the estimates at this point, yeah. SALLY SARA: Is that that good value for money? MINISTER BOWEN: Well, as I said, Sally, this is the most important diplomatic engagement Australia will have in the Pacific this term.

This is the most important climate conference that's been held in the Pacific probably ever, at least in a decade. Now, if you care about the Pacific, if you care about our region and you care about Australia's influence in our region, then you support this process. Diplomacy does come at a cost.

I mean, you can't be the most influential player in the region without cost. If you choose not to invest in the region, you allow others to fill that vacuum. SALLY SARA: The Pacific climate talks come days after the New South Wales Independent Planning Commission approved the expansion of a major coal mine in the Hunter, which will now go to the Commonwealth for approval.

What are Australia's credentials leading these talks when projects such as these are in the process of being given the green light? MINISTER BOWEN: Well, very strong, because the Pacific recognises the sea change in approach to climate change in Australia over the last four years. And that's where- I've just come from a meeting of Pacific ministers where they've said that.

Of course, across the Pacific, you'll have views expressed about those sorts of things, including that state government approval. And that's perfectly legitimate. We're a family, and families express views to each other.

As the Vanuatu minister said to me not long ago, we are Pacific brothers and brothers hold each other to high standards. And that's perfectly fine. I also make the point, as I've done publicly and privately, the way you transition away from fossil fuels is to build renewables at home and abroad to replace them.

You can't just knock off supply without dealing with demand. And that's why, actually, Australia's role as president of negotiations is so important. You saying, well, we’re only 1 per cent of emissions.

That's true. But we can influence 99 per cent of emissions in this heightened diplomatic role that Australia is taking on. SALLY SARA: Let's talk about fuel prices.

Fuel prices have continued to soar in Australia in recent weeks amid the ongoing conflict in the Middle East. Just to clarify, has the government ruled out another cut to fuel excise? MINISTER BOWEN: I think you saw the Treasurer on the weekend making clear that we're not contemplating that at this point.

We are monitoring developments very closely. We welcome the G7 release. As I said on the weekend, I’m not making predictions at this point about what that does for fuel prices.

Obviously, it helps. But there's a number of factors which go into fuel prices. The thing that could make the biggest difference to fuel prices in Australia or anywhere else in the world is this war in the Middle East ending.

I’m just back from Saudi Arabia, where I saw firsthand the situation with the pipeline, what's happening in Saudi Arabia, the pressures that are on fuel supply around the world. I was able to visit the world's largest fuel refinery in Jamnagar and to deal with Reliance, one of the world's biggest fuel companies, get the latest briefing and thinking about fuel supply.

Ultimately, when this war ends, that will be the ultimate resolution for fuel prices around the world. We have done a huge amount of work to ensure Australia's fuel security. I remind you, Sally, that it wasn't that long ago the opposition was predicting that rationing was inevitable.

One Nation was calling for rationing. We had the view that a calmer, more steady approach of engagement with international partners and working with our refineries would see us through. And I feel able to say that that was the correct approach.

SALLY SARA: As the Trump administration signals potential restrictions on diesel exports, would the government consider a cut to the excise on diesel specifically? MINISTER BOWEN: Well, the President ruled out that, to be clear, Sally, on the weekend. So I think it's important to keep these conversations based in the factual situation.

The President has said that that won't be happening. And that's part of the G7 release of the extra diesel supplies, which we welcome. They've indicated that the release of fuel concentrate on diesel.

Obviously, that's something we very much welcome. SALLY SARA: Just on a separate issue, the Australian Federal Police have confirmed a counterterrorism team is investigating an Australian link to a FlyDubai pilot who allegedly attacked a colleague in a cockpit last week. What does the federal government know about this alleged connection to Australia?

MINISTER BOWEN: That there's an investigation underway, Sally, and it would be deeply inappropriate for me to comment further, particularly as I'm at an international conference at the moment. But even if I was in Australia, the AFP should be allowed to get on with their job. SALLY SARA: Chris Bowen, thank you for joining me.

MINISTER BOWEN: Thanks, Sally. SALLY SARA: Chris Bowen, Federal Minister for Energy and Climate Change. We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of country throughout Australia and recognise their continuing connection to land, waters and culture.

We pay our respects to their Elders past, present and emerging.