Interview with Jeremy Jones, ABC Capricornia

JEREMY JONES, HOST: Well, energy investment in Gladstone – seems like there's always a new announcement coming out of the harbour city or towards the harbour city, and now it's called a heat battery, and the federal government is betting millions of dollars on it in Gladstone. Basically, a heat battery is the storage of energy as heat in materials like brick and sand, and the idea is to use electricity to store enormous amounts of heat then release it as steam to help the refinery, potentially cutting emissions by 67,000 tonnes a year.

So the project involves Rio Tinto’s Yarwun alumina refinery – more than 3 million up front, then goes ahead, more than 60 million set aside for operation and maintenance. Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Chris Bowen, has the details. Minister, thanks for joining us this morning.

Talk to us about the project. MINISTER FOR CLIMATE CHANGE AND ENERGY, CHRIS BOWEN: Pleasure, Jeremy. Good morning to your listeners.

Yeah, look, obviously Gladstone is the industrial hub of eastern Australia, and decarbonising industry and making heavy industry competitive in a decarbonising world is one of the great challenges of the transition. So industry and government are working together on that. And what we're doing today is funding the first stage of a heat battery.

So basically a lot of things traditionally have to be done by gas to get very, very high heat, 1500 degrees of heat, which is what they need at Yarwun. And that's been traditionally only been able to be done by gas. Now, there's new technology called a heat battery, which is 360 megawatt hours.

That's a lot. It can get up to 1500 degrees, which is what Yarwun needs. But it is expensive.

So Rio and the government through ARENA are co-investing. First, $3.6 million, as you said, to do the front-end engineering and design work, then another $38 million to get full-scale construction. And what that does is really locks in Yarwun as a facility, makes sure that the jobs there are secure, and lets Yarwun compete in a world where customers are saying, well, what are you doing about reducing your emissions?

Because it will reduce emissions by 67,000 tonnes if it all works. JEREMY JONES: You mentioned the future of the station there. Rio Tinto is cutting back production at Yarwun by 40 per cent.

How much confidence should workers take from this announcement when the refinery's long-term future remains uncertain? MINISTER BOWEN: Well, Rio’s making substantial investment as well as the government. So I don't think they’d be doing that if they were planning on closing the facility.

You know, this is a big investment by them as well. So I think it’s a vote of confidence from both the government and Rio in the future at Yarwun. JEREMY JONES: With this latest investment in a heat battery, there seems to be confidence in large-scale production of critical minerals in Gladstone.

But with the rising costs of both renewables and coal-fired power, is there some trepidation of spending big on this? MINISTER BOWEN: Look, we're always extremely careful when we're looking at government investments, and this has gone through a very rigorous process. The ARENA board has ticked this off, and then they make a recommendation to me, and we proceed if we're satisfied.

But look, I think it is, as I said, a vote of confidence in the future of Gladstone. I think most of our listeners know the world is changing. We've got to handle that change, but we've got to handle it carefully.

We want to invest in Gladstone to make sure its industrial future is bright. And I think there can be more people employed in Gladstone in the future, not less, if we get this transition right. And we want to work with Rio and the other big employers to make sure that those investment flows and the jobs stay and indeed grow.

JEREMY JONES: You're hearing from the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Chris Bowen. The government's also introduced gas reservation legislation. When will that translate into cheaper gas for Australians?

MINISTER BOWEN: So look, I think- I guess a principle statement first, Jeremy. Basically this is important legislation. It should have been done 20 years ago.

That would have been a whole lot easier for the country if it had been done 20 years ago, but the second best time is now. And basically it's saying, look, to the exporters, you can do what you like in effect with 80 per cent of what you export. You know, go and make as much money as you like, but 20 per cent should be reserved for Australians because we do have this really silly problem that we're one of the world's largest gas producers, but we have regular forecast gas shortages.

And the Australian people say, well, how can that be true? And the Australian people are right. So it's a pretty basic policy.

We were the only country in the world that produces gas without some form of gas reservation policy in effect. Often overseas, the gas companies are actually own by the government, so that's a gas reservation policy, or there's an explicit one like ours. And what it really does is say, look, keep that 20 per cent of gas for Australians.

Now, it's going to take a while to have its full impact because we're putting in place measures to protect existing contracts. You know, we're not interested in ripping up contracts that buyers have entered into in good faith. But we're saying when those contracts roll off, just keep 20 per cent of what you're going to export for Australians if that's what we need at that particular time.

So we've worked it through very carefully. It will put downward pressure on prices for Australians, that's good, but it also protects the Australian contracts which have been entered into, and indeed can be entered into in the future, provided Australian needs have been counted for first, and that puts downward pressure on prices. But it will take some time to flow through.

JEREMY JONES: So as we talk about Gladstone this morning, of course. one of the country's biggest gas export hubs. So is there a balance there of lower domestic gas prices with protecting the jobs and investments tied to our exports out of Gladstone? MINISTER BOWEN: Yeah, of course, and we don't need all the gas we produce in Australia.

We need nowhere near all the gas we produce, but we need some of it. But too much has been exported and not enough kept for Australians. The vast majority can be exported – 80 per cent is fine.

Just keep up to 20 per cent for Australian needs. Why are we exporting all this gas, and Australian industry is facing shortfalls in the next few years? That just doesn’t make any sense, so let’s just get a balanced policy.

It does protect exports, but also just says keep up to 20 per cent for Australian use first. JEREMY JONES: You're hearing from the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Chris Bowen. Of course, an awful 48 hours.

How are you reflecting? MINISTER BOWEN: Yeah, it's not really Australia, is it? Helen Haines is a wonderful human being.

I know her well. She's an independent MP, but I've worked very closely with her. She's just a very genuine, decent person.

I think every MP deserves to be able to walk around their community in safety, whether it's Colin Boyce or me or whoever, it's Australian democracy. Now obviously, there's charges being laid and a full investigation, and we can’t really get into details of all that. But there's a fine Australian who's lost a leg and has been fighting for her life, and I think it's a reminder that MPs, Labor, Liberal, National, One Nation, independent, are just doing a job and doing their best.

And should be- it's very important we can walk around our communities and talk to people and stay in touch. A senior minister, there’s a degree of security goes with you because you're- can be very controversial across the country. But everybody, whether the most junior MP or the most senior- you know, the Prime Minister, deserves to live in Australia in freedom, as does every single Australian, MPs included.

JEREMY JONES: Well, Minister, thank you very much for your time this morning. MINISTER BOWEN: Nice to talk to you, Jeremy. JEREMY JONES: Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Chris Bowen, with you there.

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