Fair Work Amendment (Protecting Penalty and Overtime Rates) Bill 2025

Mr TIM WILSON (Goldstein) (12:41): We just heard another one of the oratory flourishes from the minister in the context of her legislation. We asked a series of questions, which are not my questions; they're actually questions of ordinary Australians. They're questions that are being put forward by ordinary Australians into this parliament because the minister refuses to do a regulatory impact statement, refuses to have a committee and has explicitly voted against the pathway to have an inquiry into her own legislation after there were deep deficiencies and sloppy drafting and after it was criticised by industry as being badly drafted, to the point where she has now amended her own legislation to address the limitations of the legislation.

I see you chuckling there, Minister, but the reality is that we face a situation where small businesses across the country feel like they have no voice and they have been abandoned by this government and the minister, as well as by the minister for small business. We raised a series of questions. The security industry is saying, 'What is going to be the impact on us?' and I asked a simple question about whether the minister had looked into that—no answer.

We asked a simple question about how many teenagers would be at risk of losing their jobs, after a mother contacted us and talked specifically about how there was a risk that there would be a disincentive to their teenage daughter getting a job. We asked how many teenagers would lose their job—no answer. The question was asked in the context of people saying that this might be the basis on which small businesses' backs are broken and how many small businesses would lose their pathway going forward—no answer.

The minister was very open in talking about this legislation with me, and I've been very open and honest with people in saying: 'Yes, we had a briefing. It was a constructive briefing.' We had a constructive briefing. There were a simple series of questions, and both she and all of her staff were there.

What were the simple questions? The minister can attest to this. I asked, 'Has the regulatory impact statement been completed?' No.

She has confirmed this publicly, so I don't see why it's such a big problem. The second part was, 'How many people are going to be impacted by this legislation?' Nobody had an answer to that, and they had done no study on how many small businesses would be impacted. It's her decision to make that answer up.

I would have just said, 'Well, we've actually done the work and actually figured out how many people are going to be impacted by it.' Then it was: 'What's the engagement around, particularly, small business?' She's listed out large industry associations and, of course, the trade union movement. The trade union movement has always been consulted, and I bet you they're on speed dial and probably SMSing the minister now.

The minister has gone and consulted them but not small business. At every point, all we are doing, in an environment where we have record insolvencies, is trying to provide a pathway for consultation with small business to understand what the impact of the legislation will be and how many will be impacted. Then the minister comes in here and says we refuse to reveal our position on penalty rates.

Well, I don't know how to make it any clearer. The coalition supports penalty rates. For repetition.

I will say it, through the Speaker, to the minister directly: the coalition supports penalty rates. Now that we've resolved that issue, the question that we have to deal with is: how many small businesses are going to be impacted? The minister seems to want to ask me questions about that.

While I am very flattered by that question, Minister, the reality is you have the department and the capacity to do it. At the end of the day, it is your legislation, not mine. You are running a scare campaign to justify it.

Then you are turning around and saying it has no impact at all. I don't really understand what the point of that is. We are left in this quandary where one minute it's a necessary provision to protect penalty rates, which are deeply under threat; the next minute it's having no impact at all.

And we are all very confused. I get it's confusing for the parliament, and I get it's confusing for the minister, because we are all confused. The question now for us is: how many of the small businesses that operate across this country will be impacted by this legislation?

This has been the question at every point; I asked it at the first briefing I had with the minister, and she still cannot answer it. Small businesses employ millions of Australians. They are the backbone of the Australian economy, the basis on which the next generation of Australians get their aspiration, hope and opportunity for the future.

Bill, as amended, agreed to.