Fair Work Amendment (Baby Priya's) Bill 2025

Mr JOYCE (New England) (11:10): Obviously, nobody can argue against or understand the grief a person can feel having a stillborn child. We are aware of so many people who have had miscarriages. People carry the grief and sorrow with them for the rest of their lives.

I wholly agree with the substance that has been expressed in this chamber and how it has been put forward, but there is always a caveat that those of us here want to check. A number of us feel we do not we have a clear answer on this, so unfortunately—I hate to bring it up—there remains the issue of late-term abortion. We have a right to know if it includes that, because we have a right to express our views if it does.

We have concerns because, in a letter by Minister Gallagher, it appeared that late-term abortions were encompassed in this, and during estimates Minister McAllister appeared to confirm the same. That takes it into a completely different remit. We understand and respect that people have different views, but there are many of us who have spent much of our time in parliament making sure our views are incredibly clear on this issue.

We understand there are so many complexities, but I stand on my position: the day after a child is born, no matter what medical conditions or impairments might be there, you have no right to interfere in their life; therefore the day before they're born, we believe, is the same. That is something I hope I've lived by, and I think it's incredibly important for me to state my position on this.

There must be a clarification on this issue. It must be clarified before we come to a vote. It must be from the minister, before the bill is voted on, and, either way, there must be honesty in exactly what the position is.

I think we have the right to know where we vote and how we vote. On one instance, there is 100 per cent support, 100 per cent empathy. We completely understand—no questions about it.

But on the extension of it, if that's where it goes, we have every right not to vote for it and we have every right to be informed of it. We have every right for people to be completely clear about this and exactly where it is. Obviously, these debates at times can be most divisive and heated.

I accept that. But the substance of this is how you view the rights of the individual. We believe that a person, if they are not cognisant of their rights, cannot give anybody licence to extinguish their rights.

You're not cognisant of your rights when you are asleep. You're not cognisant of your rights if you're under a general anaesthetic. You're probably not cognisant of your rights below the age of two.

But you have those rights and those rights stand. As we know, people can be born at 22 or 23 weeks and survive. We believe—others don't—we have a duty of care to stand up for those rights in this parliament.

It might be a very small portion, and I acknowledge that. It is not the generality, and it might not even be what is intended, but this clarification must happen. If people clarify that it doesn't include late-term abortion, that's fine.

But if it does, and if it's not stated and hasn't been made clear, that means you're hiding it. People hide things because they believe there are circumstances where people will have a substantially different view, and they don't want them to know about it. So I pose the question here: does this proscribe—which means 'rule out'—late-term abortions or not?