QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Senator AYRES (New South Wales—Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science) (14:18): The conference in Turkiye is a diplomatic triumph for Australia. That's what it is. The costs for that will be determined in the normal way.

Senator McKenzie: How much? Senator AYRES: You know, Senator McKenzie— The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie, I have appealed to you not to call out and not to interject. You've asked your questions.

I'll listen for the minister's answer. Senator AYRES: I've answered in relation to costs for this. I'll tell you the costs that I'm concerned about.

Mr Joyce, a former member of the National Party, under you lot claimed six hundred and— Senator Cadell: Did we miss that? Senator AYRES: It's a matter of time. He claimed $675,000.

The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie? Senator McKenzie: The minister has been misrepresenting— The PRESIDENT: What's the point of order? Senator McKenzie: Barnaby Joyce— The PRESIDENT: That's a debating point.

What is the point of order? Senator McKenzie: who is still a member of the National Party. The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie, I have asked senators many times not to use points of order as some sort of way to make a personal statement.

If you had stood and asked me to direct the minister back to the question, I would have gladly done so, and I intend to draw the minister back to the question. That would have been an appropriate point of order. Minister Ayres, please go back to the question.

Senator AYRES: As I said, I've dealt with the question of costs. I understand that his ambiguous party membership status is a challenge for you. He's in the National Party and out of the National Party.

He determines the National Party's policy approach, and now he determines the Liberal Party's policy approach—in and out, Schrodinger's member for New England. He copped $675,000 in the pocket for being the special envoy, and he produced two text messages. (Time expired)