DOCUMENTS

Senator AYRES (New South Wales—Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science) (16:18): I'm very grateful for the opportunity. I just indicate, in relation to this attendance for compliance with OPD 208—which I'm informed was originally 119; thank you—that Minister O'Neil provided documents in response to Senator Bragg's order 119 on 19 December.

Some information was redacted as it disclosed cabinet deliberations. That's the way that the Westminster system works, Senator Bragg. I want to be clear here.

We as a government have complied with more orders for production of documents in one term than any Australian government in the history of the Commonwealth. That includes an order moved by Senator Bragg, who was requesting a congratulatory letter. I am very happy to provide Senator Bragg with a congratulatory letter on ministerial letterhead.

I'm happy to say to him, 'Congratulations, Senator Bragg, for staying on the coalition frontbench over the course of the last period.' Not everybody was afforded that opportunity in that sort of game of snakes and ladders with no ladders, except the ladder of opportunity that Senator Bragg ascends. Senator Bragg: A point of order. I think everyone knows this is a very long bow.

I don't think these issues are germane to the— The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT ( Senator Polley ): There is no point of order. Senator AYRES: What I won't do is move onto Senator Sharma and his extraordinary rise through this process— The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Minister, I remind you to put your remarks through the chair, please. Senator AYRES: I won't reflect upon all of the sorts of snakes and ladders, snakes and snakes, games that have gone on over there and the dramatic reversals of fortune that have happened for some and not for others.

But I would say that, in Ms O'Neil's portfolio of housing alone, in this term of parliament alone, in response to orders of production of documents, the government has provided 3,995 pages worth of documents. In terms of the number of pages, that is 62 times the number of pages that there were in the Liberal Party review, which was conducted by Sir Nicholas and Pru, who tried to speak truth to power— Senator Bragg: Are they all redacted?

How many were redacted? Senator AYRES: It's the number of pages, Senator. Senator Bragg: A point of order.

I fail to see how the minister canvassing another political party's internal review has anything to do with the matter before the Senate. The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT: There is no point of order. Senator AYRES: I do reflect upon the number of pages that we have provided and the direct relationship to the number of pages that there are in the Liberal Party review that Mr Taylor sought so hard to stop you all seeing.

Senator Henderson: A point of order. The minister is obliged to speak in a way that's directly relevant to the matter before the Senate, and I would ask you to draw him back to the matter that is being debated. The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I don't think I need to remind the minister of the subject before us.

Senator AYRES: Indeed, that same review said that the Liberal Party needed to have 'serious reform in housing'. So, fewer orders for production of documents and less secrecy from the Liberal Party machine—we know where you stood on this question. The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Minister, I think we have another point of order.

Senator McGrath: You are far-sighted, Acting Deputy President. A point of order on relevance. These debates can be wide-ranging, but the minister is nowhere near the topic at hand.

I'd ask you to bring him back to the debate, please. The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It is a wide-ranging debate, as it always is in this place. I will give the call back to the minister and ask him to continue with his contribution.

Senator AYRES: Indeed, the first part of learning that you've got a problem is being able to tell yourselves that you've got a problem. Instead of learning the lessons, we see more negativity, more extremism— Senator McGrath: Why don't you just release the documents? Senator AYRES: Indeed, Senator!

Why didn't the Liberal Party release the documents? Why didn't they do that? Look, I don't want to spend any more time this afternoon on this question, because we have years in front of us on this review.

We'll all learn lessons from it. We will. I'm not sure you will, but we will.

We will learn. We'll adapt. We'll moderate our approach and we'll get right into it.

This order for the production of documents was complied with in December. It has been complied with. Senator Bragg notes in this motion that he believes, he says, that 'the Prime Minister has previously referred to the conducted modelling in public forums'.

He should have said 'fora'. I was criticised for my syntax earlier on. It's probably 'fora'. 'Fewer' instead of 'less'—that's true.

And Senator Bragg claims that this makes the minister's PII claim irrelevant. I'll help him out here: it's about contingent liability and not the home price impact model. (Time expired) The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT ( Senator Polley ): I remind senators on the left: with continual interjection, you are then going to get a response for that.