QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Senator McALLISTER (New South Wales—Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme) (14:29): Labor is investing over $3 billion in delivering more aged-care beds, more packages and better care for older Australians in the 2026-27 budget. To fund this investment into aged care, the government will return the PHI rebate for older Australians back to the same level paid by everyone else.

We do understand that it will not be— Senator Ruston: I have a point of order on relevance. I simply asked how many pensioners will be affected by this change, nothing else. The PRESIDENT: The minister was getting to your question, and I'll continue to listen carefully.

Senator McALLISTER: The additional rebate is simply not the best way to spend precious taxpayer dollars on behalf of older Australians when we do need to do so much heavy lifting in aged care. The approach that we are taking will restore fairness to the rebate system and will free up funding to provide more dignity and care to older Australians. Senator Ruston: Once again, it's on a point of relevance.

If the minister doesn't know how many pensioners— The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Ruston. I hear that you've raised an objection. The minister is being relevant.

I'm going to ask the minister to continue. Senator McALLISTER: Under the proposed changes, all Australians will now receive the same private health support based on their income, not their age. All over 65s will still receive significant government subsidised discounts of up to 24 per cent on the premiums that private health insurers charge them, the same as the rest of the population.

The average impact on those 65 years and older— Senator Ruston: Once again, it's on a point of order on relevance. I would ask you to direct the minister to answering the question about how many pensioners will be affected. I ask nothing else.

The PRESIDENT: Senator Ruston, as you absolutely understand, I can't put words into the minister's mouth. That's what you're asking me to do. The minister is being relevant, and I'll invite the minister to continue.

Senator McALLISTER: These are important changes, and they're important changes that allow investments that are necessary into the aged-care system—$3 billion will be invested in delivering more aged-care beds, delivering more packages and better care for older Australians through the 2026-27 budget prospect. The PRESIDENT: Senator Ruston, first supplementary?