QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Senator WONG (South Australia—Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:48): I thank Senator Sharma for the question, and I would make two points. The first is the government is transparent on the nature and extent of government debt. The second point is that, if the coalition had stayed in power, debt would have crossed the trillion dollar mark three years ago.

If you had been in charge, gross debt would be nudging $1.2 trillion so— Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Sharma was heard in silence, and the minister's response will be heard in silence. Senator WONG: I know it's an uncomfortable truth for them.

It's an uncomfortable truth that gross debt is, in fact, lower every year of the forward estimates compared to that which we inherited. I know that fact is hard for those opposite to— The PRESIDENT: Order! Sorry, Senator Sharma, I was aware you were on your feet, but I was also aware that your side were being so disruptive it was pointless calling you.

I will call you now, Senator Sharma. Senator Sharma: President, a point of order on relevance. My question was quite straightforward and direct, seeking the minister's confirmation of reports that gross debt has reached $1 trillion.

That's all I was after. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Sharma. The minister is being relevant, and I will continue to listen carefully.

Thank you. Senator WONG: The budget statements were very clear. Budget statement 1 made clear: As at 30 June 2027, gross debt is $1,051.0 billion, $18.0 billion lower than at MYEFO and $173.0 billion— below the 2022 PEFO.

We know there is a great deal of work that—sorry, I thought you were standing. We know there continues to be work to be done when it comes to the budget and fiscal sustainability. The government has made a set of decisions that have actually improved the budget position compared to what it would have been under the coalition's forecasts and under the trajectory that the coalition had us on.

I trust, as someone who I know is interested in these matters, that you would actually look at the Treasury documents— Senator Cash: You always love to be demeaning! Senator WONG: I wasn't actually meaning to be demeaning. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Minister— Senator Cash: Yes, you were!

Senator WONG: You can't tell me what I was thinking! The PRESIDENT: the time for answering the question has expired. Minister Wong, please resume your seat.

Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senators! We are just on the first supplementary and I've had to stand already to get order in this chamber. Senator Sharma was on his feet, ready to ask his question, and he couldn't because of the disorder in this chamber.

Senator Sharma, your first supplementary?