QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Senator GALLAGHER (Australian Capital Territory—Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate) (15:45): I would remind those opposite that when we came to government, gross debt was forecast to be $977 billion. That was the figure for the 2020-23 fiscal year that you were responsible for.

The PRESIDENT: Senator Hume, a point of order? Senator Hume: On direct relevance, that's an answer to a completely different question. The PRESIDENT: The minister is being directly relevant to Senator Chandler's question.

Senator GALLAGHER: I am merely drawing to those opposite's attention the history and the facts of this matter, which is that the majority of the debt that we are managing now and managing in a much more responsible way was accrued under those opposite when they were in government. They doubled the debt before the pandemic hit— The PRESIDENT: Senator Cash, a point of order?

Senator Cash: Again, it is direct relevance. I'm not quite sure how much tighter we can draft our questions. The PRESIDENT: I will remind you that the first part of Senator Chandler's question asks 'since this government was elected'.

That was directly relevant. I can't be any clearer. As you know, I can't direct the minister to answer in the way that you might see fit, but your question is on relevance and direct relevance, and the minister is being both.

Senator GALLAGHER: As we outlined in this year's budget, debt is lower than what we inherited and interest payments on that debt are lower— Senator Chandler: No, it's not! Senator GALLAGHER: In terms of the forecasts that we were provided, it is lower, and interest on that debt is lower because of the budget decisions that we have made. The PRESIDENT: Senator Chandler, second supplementary?